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[POOL] WOULD YOU WANT LESS-HUMANOID NAKALIM-LOOK? LORE BASIS. PICS. MORE IN THREAD.

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Yes, slight changes (lore friendly - helmets, shfiting their facial features, removing some)
Yes, bigger changes
No
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6 years ago
Sep 19, 2019, 11:18:51 AM

Update: I'm not talented. Here's an example. A Nakalim looking more like a mummy, a ghoul-species, yet still visibly not a human.



As I cannot make "featureless lips" or "edgier cheekbones" I leave them as that. It's a rough draft. I'm not an artist, at least not a digital one.


Removing even just ears, eyelashes, brows and noses would at least give some modicum of doubt. Shield-hero has widened skullshape and more pronounced brows - as Nakalim seem to have a caste system.

 Also their leader is one time black, one time bronze, one time purple. I would suggest purple-bronze gradient but who am I to ask.

Nakalim drag-trans-hero is seen having somehow a metallic shin to his skin. Why those uniqe and exotic quirks are lost and fixed only to some individuals? Again, details make a difference from a borning space nubian-egypt to a melting pot of ideas.


Nakalim have 5 fingers, 5 toes, nails. They all seem to have breasts, at least their heroes - females and males alike. 


Here's a few tries. I'm pretty much a debutante, this took me about 10 minutes. Imagine what an artist can do in this time.



I'd like to hear both sides. As I'm clearly for a change and I posted numerous arguments why I think so - it'd be nice that someone would post why it's a "no".


1. As I've said, devs are already fixing the planet (model and art) and Nakalim-Awakening in general, and slight art changes (in quantity) are little time consuming. 

2.Bugs, glitches, outright doofusery, outright lore conflict are abound. There's a lot of room to change things.
3.I also think community, during the Umbrail Choir vote overwhelmingly voted for non-humanoids 60%?, secondly - for robots 40% wirh a small minority less than 20% voting for humanoids. 

4. There are alredy at least 4 human factions present(Vaulters, UEmpire, Pilgrims, Sisters of Mercy), not counting Nakalim, Horatio, 2 subtypes of Imperials and 2 subtypes of Vaulters. With this greater counting it's 10 human races. C'mon.


Slowhands about there being NO humans in Space and their common origin in Mezan:

https://www.games2gether.com/amplitude-studios/endless-space-2/forums/65-general/threads/34654-the-history-of-humans-in-the-endless-franchise?page=1#post-287755 

Note: Nakalim, as of now, cannot find Mezan as they arent classified as humans, yet they look like one. They also state their homeworld is Sombra. Mezan is stated to be a birthplace of humanity is ESverse.


Thread about their similarities:

https://www.games2gether.com/amplitude-studios/endless-space-2/forums/65-general/threads/34502-nakalim-another-mezari-offshot-coincident-update2-dev-reply-inside?page=1

and why covergemnt evolution isnt possible.


Proposal concerning ther look, lore-friendly:

https://www.games2gether.com/amplitude-studios/endless-space-2/forums/65-general/threads/34687-dehumanize-nakalim-they-appearence-is-a-mistake-solid-sources-and-proofs-proposals?page=1#post-287739 


tldr; pics   


Note: look at the ribs of carriers. This seems to be a feature, as one of heroes, the scientist ones, has them as well. .


Proposals megathread: 

https://www.games2gether.com/amplitude-studios/endless-space-2/forums/66-game-design/threads/34614-lore-of-awakening-damage-control-mild-to-radical-proposals-a-cheeky-attempt-at-megathread?page=1#post-287736


Those slight changes would literally take a day of work, and most of it would be a work on leader and on intro model.

Updated 6 years ago.
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6 years ago
Sep 20, 2019, 7:18:48 PM

You are a heavy-lifter indeed!


I gotta say though, I think this here is being pretty pointless, it's not gonna change. I wouldn't think completely overhauling the art could be such a high priority for the devs to pool resources into it.


Personally I don't care who's human and who's not and I think I'm not far from the truth when I say that the silent majority is thinking the same.


While I understand your arguments and I don't disagree with you on most of your points, I think this is pushing things a bit too far.


The Nakalim could be more alien, true, but I like their look a lot and it doesn't cause me dissonance when I'm playing them in the game.

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6 years ago
Sep 20, 2019, 7:34:08 PM

True, it might be pointless, but causes are not: I don't feel like they are on par with any other race. 

I have my beliefs and those are not of vengeance or hate, but of growing and love.


Their lore is bland, their lore is self-contradictionary and they feel as they are "sticked haphazardly" onto the game - not incorporated into. Two teams of devs, with one having 0 knowledge about it, did an oopsie of not coordinating their tasks and going easy, instead of proper.

Nakalim, as of now, don't even count as humans - in-game. They aren't classified as them.


They souldn't really - as any attempt to add them to Mezari lore is a failure, it feels artificial and insincere. Slowhands silence on this topic is also irritating, as he promised to say a thing about them on strwam - promised to me, personally.


You see, I think, that he doesn't have good answers why Nakalim are humans, besides "it's cool, for no reason". They don't feel human, for me, and MANY MANY PEOPLE are severly disappointed it's an another, and badly written, faction of not only humanoids but straight-up humans. 


Okay, he can say: they are so-so-so-so-so-ancient, they predate Mezan. But with mezan being already stated as a birthplace of humanity and ALL humanoids(sic) it would be like a cheap, silly and retrocausative fix, a retcon, to justify an addition of them, to cover dev's faults of not understaniding their own game or lore.


I've seen ES2(EL and Amplitude in general) as a bastion of ingenuity and listening to gamers, their community and ultimately breadwinners, with devs interacting with us, getting ideas and critique from us. This one expansion, not only for me, but for many others (who ever anulled their purchase) is a let down, a dud. A failure to enrapture us. I see devs try to mend their ways, starting with this wicked WierdEarth thing, moving to traits and affinities. 


Art is but a small part, but means a lot. A few faces changed here and there eliminates all retcons. It's not a complete revamp, as there are literally 5 at most 10 pieces of art, where Nakalim are seen and they are 100% human. Other times they are deniably human and that works for me. With this small fix, as I've said, it took me 10 minutes, Nakalim finally work as a faction.



Updated 6 years ago.
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6 years ago
Sep 23, 2019, 6:31:51 PM

I would rather they look as they are. And with more dark brown and less purple skin, like in the starting video.


No offense.


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6 years ago
Sep 23, 2019, 7:11:56 PM

I've said it before, I believe they could be trans/post-humans, as they are elevated by Lost. That whould explain their huamn look, yet allows to count them as something else.

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6 years ago
Sep 23, 2019, 9:04:22 PM

Yes, and that gives us a count of 4 per 12 human-empires, be it vanilla humans or post-humans. considering there are like 50 races to pick I think it's an undeserved representation. All contests on this site showed playerbase's prefeennce for non-humanoid, alien or anything BUT humanoid and humans in particular.


Some might be satisifed, most won't care enough, some will not be satisifed - I'm in the last camp. I don't like their insertion (they are so-so-so-so ancient HUMANS, so-so-so-ancient they predate Endless fall! wowie! they predate Mezans fall!) and execution, for a multi-species faction(where are those aliens?  they are nowhere to be found) they are curiously mono-ethnic.


If they are post/trans humans they are looking like humans and acting on par with an intelligence of a cargo cultist and a sycophant. I think post-trans-species would be something more - but it's not the point - they are just not what was promised and is marketed.





Updated 6 years ago.
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6 years ago
Sep 23, 2019, 10:19:08 PM
HuskOfKnowledge wrote:

Yes, and that gives us a count of 4 per 12 human-empires, be it vanilla humans or post-humans. considering there are like 50 races to pick I think it's an undeserved representation. All contests on this site showed playerbase's prefeennce for non-humanoid, alien or anything BUT humanoid and humans in particular.


Some might be satisifed, most won't care enough, some will not be satisifed - I'm in the last camp. I don't like their insertion (they are so-so-so-so ancient HUMANS, so-so-so-ancient they predate Endless fall! wowie! they predate Mezans fall!) and execution, for a multi-species faction(where are those aliens?  they are nowhere to be found) they are curiously mono-ethnic.


If they are post/trans humans they are looking like humans and acting on par with an intelligence of a cargo cultist and a sycophant. I think post-trans-species would be something more - but it's not the point - they are just not what was promised and is marketed.







Could you provide me a link or info about what was promised? Concerning their heritage?


All i found was nothing relating the species.


Kind regards,

Keimpe

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6 years ago
Sep 24, 2019, 5:54:46 AM
Sublustris wrote:

I've said it before, I believe they could be trans/post-humans, as they are elevated by Lost. That whould explain their huamn look, yet allows to count them as something else.

It could be a Star Wars move basically. And by that, I mean the Chiss.


The Chiss looked human, with the exception of blue skin and red eyes. But despite the stark similarities, were in fact not human in anyway.


Now I havent been able to try the new dlc yet but I'll get around to it.

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6 years ago
Sep 24, 2019, 7:53:17 AM
Keimpe wrote:
HuskOfKnowledge wrote:

Yes, and that gives us a count of 4 per 12 human-empires, be it vanilla humans or post-humans. considering there are like 50 races to pick I think it's an undeserved representation. All contests on this site showed playerbase's prefeennce for non-humanoid, alien or anything BUT humanoid and humans in particular.


Some might be satisifed, most won't care enough, some will not be satisifed - I'm in the last camp. I don't like their insertion (they are so-so-so-so ancient HUMANS, so-so-so-ancient they predate Endless fall! wowie! they predate Mezans fall!) and execution, for a multi-species faction(where are those aliens?  they are nowhere to be found) they are curiously mono-ethnic.


If they are post/trans humans they are looking like humans and acting on par with an intelligence of a cargo cultist and a sycophant. I think post-trans-species would be something more - but it's not the point - they are just not what was promised and is marketed.

Could you provide me a link or info about what was promised? Concerning their heritage?


All i found was nothing relating the species.


Kind regards,

Keimpe

What was promised - a faction that is made of many alien cultures.If humans were part of that confederation - I would not mind.
I mind that they are 100% human-dominated faction, with all strata of society full of fumans, with a token 2 heroes paying lip service to that statement.

If humans were a minority, latecomers from Mezan, I'd apprrove.   


From Hero race vote: 

(...)"At the peak of their power, the new faction controlled a vast galactic empire and had absorbed many other cultures and species into their own. Although their former glory has dimmed and their power waned, the legacy of this cosmopolitan society remains. As anybody can rise to power, regardless of their background, one of their new heroes will hail from an existing Minor Faction. Which one is up to you! "(...)

Slowhands repeated that just yersterday: 

(...)2. Nakalim is the name of the faction. Race is less of an issue for them; like the late Roman Empire, they are a mix of innumerable other peoples. (...).

Yours Truly,

HoK


Updated 6 years ago.
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6 years ago
Oct 2, 2019, 10:39:13 AM

I'm kind of surprised that for the longest time radical faction prevailed, losing their pole position in the end(as of now). I'm pleasantly surpised thought. It's roughly 50% (for radical change vs simple no) and that's saying something. 





Updated 6 years ago.
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6 years ago
Oct 16, 2019, 12:09:05 AM

I'm not really a fan of their humanoid and mummy skin...

For the lore it's ok

For the gameplay, i have not tested them yet...


The problem of your vote is that the 'no' seems to be the first choice,

But it is because there are 2 'yes' choices.

If you add all the 'yes' choices, you can see that both responses are equally chosen.

Updated 6 years ago.
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