Daynen wrote:

A fairly well thought out build, though I do wonder why HIssho?  Remember your visual affinity determines your hulls, starting hero and quests/rewards.  I've never really played Hissho through to their main quest completion so I don't know what they provide to the build.

Yeah the visual was something I didn’t put much thought into and honestly any visual would work with this save for Riftborn(otherwise it’s a custom Riftborn with an emphasis on Food... which doesn’t make sense). I’ve never played Hissho due to the fact that they’re really an unorthodox playstyle(Uber Tall playstyle, which isn’t how I play. I lean towards Wide or a middle of the road) but the few times I’ve recruited their heroes, they’ve done exceptionally well in combat. So I figure what would Hissho be like if they weren’t Honor Bound and could warp time itself(true testament to a custom faction). Plus in a Democracy you can have 3 ideologies so by picking Hissho, I was hoping to encourage Military into the Senate but who knows. UE would be my initial replacement since you can fill Religious with Lena as heir, needing only Ecology and w/e faction fills Senate’s 3rd slot.

It's not too much trouble to make your own custom factions, and I recently figured out how to tie AI personalities to faction traits.

@barf (sorry for the slow response, was gone for the holidays)

Oh interesting, you're using tall and wide to describe the initial expansion phase of the game.  I'm using them in "civ" terms to describe overall empire pop.  Sorry, that's my "civ" vocab bleeding over haha.  For example, wide would be like 10, 3 pop cities for 30 pop.  A tall civ would then be 3, 10 pop cities for 30 pop.  Same growth but different ways to get there.  What I love about ES2 versus civ is that you can grow HUGE and go both wide and tall.  It obviously takes a lot of resources and strategy but the fact that it's a possibility is why I like the game so much :D

I usually play Unfallen with the goal of being huge but you're limited in your starting systems.  Since you have to grow to nearby systems you're usually limited to the strength of what's around you.  The game seems to understand this though and I've had a lot of decent starts with them so it's not too much of a handicap.  Unlike Vault or Lumeris which can just cherry pick good systems across the universe.  Also keep in mind that yes vine-ing a system does take time, you also don't have to wait for the outpost to grow and can colonize immediately.  Once you get 5-6 vine ships, it's pretty quick.  I usually make two fleets and just do a strong line in two directions.  You're typically more limited by the over-colonization cap than you are the speed of which you can colonize if that makes sense?

Yea I saw you post the sowers splicing on another thread.  That's a super busted custom build haha but kudos for discovering it.  I never would of thought of pairing them.  I do have a stronger Horatio custom faction that I do but they're already really strong that I didn't want to buff them even more.  I was curious on your design goals when making your civs?  Do you like to go for sharper strengths and weaknesses?  Or do you like to have a strong overall civ?  

You seem to favor science a lot which is interesting.  I always tend to prioritize it lower in my civ's and games.  My fav factions are all mostly food/production and expansive.  Just focusing on raw population to generate enough base science but I like your ideas for utilizing the science laws and focusing on it more as a main drive.

@barf

hmm I like you messing around with biophobic more.  I've always been curious if we could make a faction use it more and have it not as crappy.  I actually think Meritocratic wouldn't be OP on this type of civ since they'll need to offset the lower pop and FIDS bonuses.  Strange but good is also a good idea to help give them a little boost and the +food to sterile is also nice.

Have you play tested this at all?  I haven't messed around with it too much or done too many riftborn games for comparison.  It seems an interesting strategy though.

I'm gonna go test out a Water themed Unfallen with Science as their focus for my next playthrough.

Satchmo333 wrote:

@barf (sorry for the slow response, was gone for the holidays)

Oh interesting, you're using tall and wide to describe the initial expansion phase of the game.  I'm using them in "civ" terms to describe overall empire pop.  Sorry, that's my "civ" vocab bleeding over haha.  For example, wide would be like 10, 3 pop cities for 30 pop.  A tall civ would then be 3, 10 pop cities for 30 pop.  Same growth but different ways to get there.  What I love about ES2 versus civ is that you can grow HUGE and go both wide and tall.  It obviously takes a lot of resources and strategy but the fact that it's a possibility is why I like the game so much :D

I usually play Unfallen with the goal of being huge but you're limited in your starting systems. Since you have to grow to nearby systems you're usually limited to the strength of what's around you. The game seems to understand this though and I've had a lot of decent starts with them so it's not too much of a handicap. Unlike Vault or Lumeris which can just cherry pick good systems across the universe. Also keep in mind that yes vine-ing a system does take time, you also don't have to wait for the outpost to grow and can colonize immediately. Once you get 5-6 vine ships, it's pretty quick. I usually make two fleets and just do a strong line in two directions. You're typically more limited by the over-colonization cap than you are the speed of which you can colonize if that makes sense?

Yea I saw you post the sowers splicing on another thread. That's a super busted custom build haha but kudos for discovering it. I never would of thought of pairing them. I do have a stronger Horatio custom faction that I do but they're already really strong that I didn't want to buff them even more. I was curious on your design goals when making your civs? Do you like to go for sharper strengths and weaknesses? Or do you like to have a strong overall civ?

You seem to favor science a lot which is interesting.  I always tend to prioritize it lower in my civ's and games.  My fav factions are all mostly food/production and expansive.  Just focusing on raw population to generate enough base science but I like your ideas for utilizing the science laws and focusing on it more as a main drive.

I didn't come up with Extreme Foremen and Planet Menders combination. Its been around since the game's inception really and back in the old days(and before I bought the game) it was possible to have Extreme Foremen's malus completely eliminated by Planet Menders. Meaning it could be utilized in any Gameplay Affinity and without the need for Sowers minor population. For balance reasons, Planet Menders(and subsequently Sowers) had the depletion buff halved so the only way to have Extreme Foremen in a non-Craver set-up is with Gene Hunter(splicing it out with Sowers) or with Shipbound(moving to another system once planets are depleted). Otherwise you're better off with Meritocratic, Adept Workers or another strong population buff.

I've come to like Science ideology because it does 3 things. 1) You get a reduction in Technology costs(10%), 2) Able to research techs from tiers not yet unlocked(namely you can research one tier above whats possible) and 3) Science laws are pretty strong(system improvement costs, growth, ship movement and ship damage. Their power is amplified in a Republic). In Autocratic Governments, it also applies a +1 Science per population buff. Combining that with a Science Population collection bonus(like Peer Reviewed) only enhances it further. As for making Civs, I try to be a min/max'er if that makes any sense as opposed to a theme generally speaking.

With respect to Continuum Sculptors, its really meant to be paired with Riftborn Visual sadly. The sheer lack of Food early on means growth is severely hampered on Arid or poor Food worlds. Short of starting on an Atoll or any 8 Food yield planet, the growth is going to be slow and arduous since not only do you not have Colony base support but expansion takes 30% of the already depleted amount to found a new colony. Riftborn use production instead and hence meshes ideally with its Gameplay Affinity. You get Thinkers and Tinkers I(Pulsos Minor faction trait) and Riftborn can colonize in a single turn...

The feature of building population rather than growing them (and the associated lack of starting food) REALLY needs to be split off into a trait.  Either that or it needs to be moved into riftborn visual affinity while the reverse terraforming becomes a trait.  One or the other would do nicely.

Daynen wrote:

The feature of building population rather than growing them (and the associated lack of starting food) REALLY needs to be split off into a trait.  Either that or it needs to be moved into riftborn visual affinity while the reverse terraforming becomes a trait.  One or the other would do nicely.

You want to be able to manufufacture Craver insects? To quote an annoying Pokedex... "does not compute" XD That being said, that would be rather nice to see but something popped into my brain the other day and I figure I'd say it now. When assimilating minor factions, you obtain their trait. What if you could start the game with their trait already apart of your custom Empire? Can you imagine a custom Riftborn(or Riftborn VIsual) with Thinkers and Tinkers 1 as a faction trait? Sweet mother of mercy lol.

Yes.  Yes I could see that.  So long as the traits are appropriately costed so that each one is a real opportunity cost appropriate to its benefit, then yeah, I could see a faction starting with any number of crazy faction traits.  That's kind of the point.  The editor does need a balance pass as a great many traits are quite off in their point cost.  I'm sure they wanted to make it easy to add up to 95 or 100 points so they kept everything at multiples of 5 but there are traits that just are not worth the same as other traits in the same tier.  Some traits probably just weren't playtested enough outside the team's own internal testing so they didn't realize just how players would combine them to get more power out of them; it's a common phenomenon in game development.

I'M BACK.

So I finally sat down and tried a faction I really hadn't messed with yet: the umbral choir.  It's kind of silly they start with so many traits above the limit but I thought a little pruning and focus would do them some good...and hoo boy did it:

Hax.  ALL THE HAX.  Also +5 FIDS on all pops on the always cold and sterile home system is nuts, especially when doubled by boosters.  With the right techs you're looking at 50 pops just on your home system.  that's 250 FIDS BEFORE the planet bonuses or other multipliers.  Rush your hacking techs and start backdooring all the way to enemy capitals to steal all THEIR techs and suddenly you're set up for a scientific victory.  Set your cloaked scientific behemoths on special nodes for strategics and crank out those cloaked fleets.  It would obviously require much more care when playing against humans but if left unmolested it just PLOWS through the tech trees.  Of particular note is that this faction is absolute NIGHTMARE FUEL for Vodyani, Cravers and Horatio.  Minor factions just VANISH out from under their noses.  Come to think of it, this might explain some painful Horatio playthroughs I've had...

One thing I would like to see is the icon on the ships matching the icon that you choose for the race and not the one for the Visual Affinity race.

I've played around trying to generate a few custom factions, but some of them haven't been play-tested all that much.  I'll see if I can figure out image upload and post some of them.

I have two factions where I tried to recreate Endless Legend races using the Endless Space Rules:

Thought the Vodyani were the best fit, because of the Broken Lords lore of them needing to consume the life essence of others to survive; the Businessmen III to reflect their focus on gold in EL.

For the Wild Walkers, Sacred Tradition shows the path of enemy vessels - reflecting The Sharing;  They were also an attempt at making an Ecological + Industrial civ.

These are cool. I stopped fiddling with it when it kept being so restrictive. I should give CaptainCobbs mod a go though.

It's true the creator can be a bit stifling to some concepts as there are features some factions simply require to get off the ground.  Broken Lords were one of my favored EL factions as well, though capturing the heart of their playstyle is tough in ES2.  I really still hold out a little bit of hope that ampliteam is planning a pass over the editor; there's so much potential for new game styles if they'd tweak just a few things...in the meantime I'm still experimenting with a few custom concepts, including:

An unfallen variant with slave drivers, observances and insane food production for massive pop growth, pop sacrifice and excessive manpower for unstoppable invasions.  Running into challenges with this one

Horatio with Emperor's will, designed for maximum influence efficiency, multiple tech buyouts per turn and influence circles that cover the stars themselves.  This one works pretty well overall.

Lumeris federation variant with a focus on trade companies and system development.  This one's having a hard time getting off the ground since the traits don't come into play until tier 3 tech.

I have come to a quite pickle in my attempt to make a faction, and it seems to have some problems with Omniscience trait effecting more things than it should.

Originaly, it was going to have biophobic replacing one of the techs and Basryxo citizens replaving Sefaloros, but learned reverse teraforming isn't tied to biophobic trait. Main idea was that main population would colonize planets first, preferably on anomalies for science synergy. then you would send a minor population which grows naturaly with the food main population start producing. Basryxo would give most industry on sterile, so you would teraform planets to be desert/lava for more industry as your robot population keeps them alive. Kinda combination of few faction gimicks; some anomaly seeking like Nakalim looking for relics, population micro for best science/industry yield, Vaulter type colonization etc.

Then problems started in tech screen

Anomaly Framework not having science upgrades is because of "Beliefs not Breakthroughs" but it confused me at first as game credited it to "Sophon" affinity.

1st problem is Adaptive Colonies tech incorrectly says it will upgrade Sophon exploration ships. Don't know if it would correctly upgrade Riftborn exploration ship I need to continue my game to to see if it will work.

2nd problem is it allows both sophon and normal version of Xeno-Industrial Structure. Once you build one, other one disapears from build list and if it was on the construction queue, it will stop building that and clog the queue.

3rd is Sophonic Noosphere, which is suppose to be a Sophon affinity tech, apears.

I think multiple Sophon Affinity are actualy tied to Omniscience. I'm not sure how big of an impact this will have on my current game but it might cause some compatibility issues with Omniscience for different faction affinities.

Barf wrote:

Daynen wrote:

Barf wrote:

snip because I guess he doesn't know this one yet.

HEHEHEHEHEH.  You need to look up a tabletop game called Paranoia.  You'll get it.

Eh tabletop games were non-existent in my household. I'll be sure to look it up sometime but not today ;). One thing I did learn though is that Slave Driver's Gameplay Affinity has a perk of +1 Exploration Ships at game start. My ignorance is largely due to me not having played Cravers as a Vanila faction(probably should at some point) but the Exploration Ship perk got me thinking that it shouldn't be exclusive to the Craver Gameplay but rather a perk of their Big Fleets Faction trait. Namely for each stage of Big Fleets you get +1 Exploration Ship at game start. That would mean that Cravers would get +2 Exploration Ships or 3 total since they have Big Fleets II, making them that much stronger Militarily at game start(which makes sense since they're supposed to be aggressive). This change would allow Custom Factions not utilizing Slave Drivers to start the game with more Exploration Ships. If that change were made though, I'd up the cost of Big Fleets to 20 and 35 respectively(got to make it costly to obtain a real unique perk that Big Fleets would provide).

I just started a game with my UE Slave faction and early reaction is that its a strong faction to say the least since UE Exploration Ships can double as capable combat ships(and starting with 2 makes them stronger). I tabled my Sophon faction until I solve the early game issue with Population. I suspect my Vaulter solution is the key but I think updating the Faction Editor to include some Sterile Planets for Starting Planet is the better fix. Your Riftborn Slave Driver faction inspired me to come up with my own take on Riftborn: The Borg. I know its unoriginal but it fits and while I hate their glass cannon Hunter Ships(I like having at least 2 Utility slots for a weapon enhancer), this ought to be pretty fun to play.

Name: Borg

Description: We are the Borg. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Resistance is futile.

Gameplay Affinity: Gene Hunter

Visual Affinity: Riftborn

Starting Planet: Arid

Starting Government: Autocracy

Starting Political Ideology: Religious

Population buff: Adept Workers with Anomaly Stalkers

Population Collection: Mass Produced

Faction Traits:
Biophobic

Big Fleets II

Price of Perfection II

Kal'Tik'Ma starting minor population

Fast Travelers II

Xenolinguistics

Plasma Metallurgy

Eternal War

This faction only hits 75 of the 95 Faction points possible but has a particular theme: We are the Borg and we take what we want. To simulate their Hive Mind(akin to the Cravers), the starting Government is Autocracy but unlike the Cravers, the Borg philosophy is more Religious than Militaristic. They're so enamored or devoted towards achieving perfection that its become almost like a Religious Doctrine. To achieve "perfection", they assimilate other species and Horatio's Gameplay Affinity in Gene Hunter fits perfectly with this. Since the Borg don't really grow naturally but are "manufactured", the Riftborn Visual Affinity is the perfect choice here. The Starting Planet is Arid because its the cheapest one available that provides the largest starting Industrial yield.

For Population traits, I opted for Adept Workers. Its the strongest buff for a Cyborg race and I added Anomaly Stalkers to yield a Science bonus for Anomalies. For Collection bonus, I chose Riftborn due to its Wormhole benefit(since the Borg are notorious for tunneling through space). 

Faction Trait wise, they're relatively straight forward. For starters, they dislike Biological life(aka Biophobic) and only value it if it helps them achieve perfection. Otherwise they purge it from existence(razing planets is not only an option, its recommended). Since theyre naturally hostile, Eternal War epitomizes them perfectly and they back up their Religious Zeal with Big Fleets II and Fast Travelers II. Their starting minor population is Kal'Tik'Ma so that once they're assimilated, it adds +3 Loyalty(covering Biophobic malus on Fertile worlds and removing the malus on all -1 and -3 planets, including the Arid world you start on). Alternatively you can swap out the Minor Population for Expansionists II(-50% Overcolonization Penalty) to make this faction even more of a Wide Empire or Constructionist II(+25% Industry) to further boost Industrial output. Starting Technologies are Xenolinguistics and Plasma Metallurgy, unlocking both Tier 1 Strategics from the start along with both Tier 1 Industry improvements.

LMK what you all think.

I disagree with your Borg custom build it can be done even better rethink how the Borg use what they assimilate it's a game breaker

my favorite custom race is essentially the Hissho except their starting minor pops are the Yussho, they don't start with a tier 1 military tech, the primary pops are industrialist instead of militaristic, their starting ideology are industrialist and they start as a federation for the extra system expansion.