I'd definitely like to see some form of crisis or event chain to spice up the late game. But I really hope it wouldn't be a purely military challenge, as the Crises in Stellaris are when you get right down to it.

I also have to agree that ideally, such a crisis would shake up the status quo and allow a weaker empire to catch up, rather than being a threat that only the most powerful empires can deal with, and the weaker ones get thrown under the bus.

With a feature like this, though, it may be wiser to wait until after release (proper release, not Early Access release), to be sure all the core features are implemented.

AEIOU wrote:

Endless Legend kind of drags during the mid game often. When some factions go to war and others just kept expanding and exploring, very little is happening and there isn't much incentive to steer away from your strategy (unless Necrophages are on your borders). This, of course, can be remedied by playing aggressively, but with a number of different styles present in the game, that's a shame to do each time. So, in the case that these same pacing problem exists in ES2, it'd be neat for the game to have these large events to shake it up a bit. I haven't played Stellaris so I can't comment on it, but it sounds nice.

Since you haven´t played - I can elaborate. It´s a game element designed around Singleplayer. They generally do not occur in Multiplayer.

It takes a LONG time for them to happen if you really want them to, it´s a very frustrating process.

I'm really glad how much people agree with me, that cool thanks :D

I totally agree with @The-Cat-o-Nine-Tales . As I said, we need differents type of crisis , Invasion (Harmony war ,I really see them as big enemies as he say @Mokinokaro) or economical or scientist or ecological. I don't like the idea of an only solution we got to win a crisis is to "bring in on the wrecking machine".

I really hope a Dev see that ^^

Endless Legend kind of drags during the mid game often. When some factions go to war and others just kept expanding and exploring, very little is happening and there isn't much incentive to steer away from your strategy (unless Necrophages are on your borders). This, of course, can be remedied by playing aggressively, but with a number of different styles present in the game, that's a shame to do each time. So, in the case that these same pacing problem exists in ES2, it'd be neat for the game to have these large events to shake it up a bit. I haven't played Stellaris so I can't comment on it, but it sounds nice.

Mokinokaro wrote:

An obvious end game crisis for ES2 would be the Harmony showing up if they're not a playable faction.

Actually to expand on your idea, it might be interesting if a faction that was not in the game comes from "elsewhere" temporarily as a crisis.  

Example:  A cravers invasion from the edge of the galaxy that is strong but short lived.

Things like that, or not.  I could see that breaking standard gameplay if a "9th faction", so to speak, is too much of invasive force despite not being in the overall game session.

An obvious end game crisis for ES2 would be the Harmony showing up if they're not a playable faction.

Sir-Rogers wrote:

The_Judge wrote:

Yeah, Stellaris suffers from "paradox syndrome", where the game is a great concept with some things done right but the game still being mediocre until it's updated later.

Europa Universalis 3, Europa Universalis 4, Crusader Kings 2 and Hearts of Iron 4 didn´t suffer from such syndrome. They were great at release and I feel that after a point the DLC´s stopped adding interesting content. For EU4 in particular, for CK2 I don´t feel like any of them added anything interesting the base game was good enough.

Yes they did suffer from that, and the expansion continue to add in stuff that should have been there at launch. And I don't understand what you mean by saying something about Hearts of Iron 4 being great. 

The_Judge wrote:

Yeah, Stellaris suffers from "paradox syndrome", where the game is a great concept with some things done right but the game still being mediocre until it's updated later.

Europa Universalis 3, Europa Universalis 4, Crusader Kings 2 and Hearts of Iron 4 didn´t suffer from such syndrome. They were great at release and I feel that after a point the DLC´s stopped adding interesting content. For EU4 in particular, for CK2 I don´t feel like any of them added anything interesting the base game was good enough.

Sir-Rogers wrote:

Whilst we are creatively brainstorming I would please like you to keep in mind that ... Stellaris was a failure - in my humble opinion - and is the reason why I really really want to play Endless Space 2, in addition to having waited for it for a long time. I mean Paradox are amazing at creating their historical grand strategy games, they should leave the Sci-Fi genre to Amplitude.

So I personally wouldn´t want to see too many ideas "copied" over from Stellaris. The endgame crisis were poorly designed in SP - they had no real impact on the game, and I tried to get the Warp Drive Invaders to spawn in any of my games. After 20 or so games I just gave up ... very frustrated. Aside from that the endgame crisis were not balanced around MP at all that´s something to keep in mind. I very much enjoy the competitive MP games ( Both EL and ES - and as soon as possible ES2 )

So one would have to carefully consider if endgame criss are worth the effort ( and it would be a BIG effort in time and manpower to get it done right - as it could seriously mess up the balance and flow of the game )

My two cents.

Yeah, Stellaris suffers from "paradox syndrome", where the game is a great concept with some things done right but the game still being mediocre until it's updated later.

Whilst we are creatively brainstorming I would please like you to keep in mind that ... Stellaris was a failure - in my humble opinion - and is the reason why I really really want to play Endless Space 2, in addition to having waited for it for a long time. I mean Paradox are amazing at creating their historical grand strategy games, they should leave the Sci-Fi genre to Amplitude.

So I personally wouldn´t want to see too many ideas "copied" over from Stellaris. The endgame crisis were poorly designed in SP - they had no real impact on the game, and I tried to get the Warp Drive Invaders to spawn in any of my games. After 20 or so games I just gave up ... very frustrated. Aside from that the endgame crisis were not balanced around MP at all that´s something to keep in mind. I very much enjoy the competitive MP games ( Both EL and ES - and as soon as possible ES2 )

So one would have to carefully consider if endgame criss are worth the effort ( and it would be a BIG effort in time and manpower to get it done right - as it could seriously mess up the balance and flow of the game )

My two cents.

TL;DR: I propose adding endgame crisis to redistribute the cards and add a bit of punch to the game.

Hello

I don’t think this suggestion has been made or even proposed by Amplitude’s game designers so I’m proposing this :

I recently started playing Stellaris (good game to wait for Endless Space 2) and that game is good ! I’m not doing a precise critique but the thing that I love absolutely loved was the endgame crisis.

So what are these ?

In Stellaris (I will base my suggestion on this game), crisis are scenarios that happen at the end of a game and  direct it towards a final point or at least disrupts the balance. The factions usually need

to be united to defeat this enemy (even if it's possible to do it alone with a bit of talent). During this period, everything is messed up and even weaker factions can reach their goal.

Alright, but why suggesting this for Endless ?

In most of the 4X, we can guess who will be winner after roughly one hundred turns. It's hard to catch up on others if they had the chance (for example) to find better resources in the beginning or who have conquered a faction with more success.

The idea is that proposing crisis would add more danger for the top players (while still being dangerous for weaker factions) and redistribute the cards according to the player's reactions during that event.

Got it. But what do you propose exactly ?

After a number of turns, around 300 for example, a crisis would be selected randomly and integrated in the game. That crisis would be scenarised and will need the participation of all factions to be vanquished. This could involve exploring some planets, discovering technology (if already discovered, then skip to the next part), or doing some construction. Just like each quest in Endless, there would be different conclusions which would lead to different consequences (like being selfish and keep every bonus for you, hostility, altruism...).

Looks fun (or not), any real example ?

Yes ! Four situations that could become major crisis.

« From Dust to dust » : Dust is dying. No one really knows how such a thing is possible, but all the Dust in the galaxy slowly turns to simple dust. More than scaring the galaxy's banks, the long term consequences would be devastating for the future.

Effects : every 10 turns, 10% of your Dust production disappears.

« Wrath in the blood » : a strange plague runs through the galaxy. It affects the contaminated by provoking a sort of fury and making them incredibly aggressive and destructive. If a cure isn't quickly found, then everything will be chaos.

Effects : every 10 turns, 10%of the population disappears.

« The great war » : Unknown signals from some massive force gathering at the edge of the galaxy have brought joy and interest to scientists. The glee stopped when they found out these signals were coming from enormous ships with weapons never seen before, coming to subjugate the galaxy. It's time to take up arms.

Effects : a new powerful faction (harmony for example) starts conquering the galaxy

« Everything dies » : Even stars die. It usually takes billions of years... But in some places, more and more stars have started collapsing into black holes, making life on nearby planets impossible.

Effects : Every 5 turns, a random system becomes unfit for life.

Here were some crisis examples that could be implemented in the game. I don't think everything would be possible, but this could be food for thought.

This is my proposition, thank you for taking the time reading it. Don't hesitate to comment, give your opinion or simply answer the poll.

Thank you again to read it.

PS: sorry for my english, not my first language ^^"

Honestly, I think that if Amplitude devs took the concept of Stellaris and made it, Stellaris would have been a great game.

But crisis in Stellaris are broken. There are currently 3 of them, and two of them are bland and unbalanced, while the last one is simply not working correctly. The new one from the upcoming DLC Leviathans looks cool, but Stellaris dev diaries looked very cool too, so I became skeptical about everything related to Stellaris.

But in ES2, it could be great. If done well, we a true lore to justify it (and not just "WE ARE SPACE MONGOLS HAK HAK HAK") and an engaging story, it could be awesome. I trust Amplitude devs for their capacity to bring interesting stories, rather than emergent story telling which is more a Paradox speciality (you know, systems and mechanics that lead to unexpected situations).

By the way, aren't the Cravers a kind of perpetual crisis ?

Though I am no fan of Stellaris, I am also no fan of 4x late game syndrome. I am glad to see everyone thus far is onboard with having some sort of late game plot twist 

@Nyutek great concept! thought about the same thing myself. I also have some ideas i want to share about crisis, gonna make a topic this week, feel free to take a look :)

Thanks for your answer I'm glad lot of people like it :D

@The_Judge: Not exactly like Stellaris yep bu we can imagine a crisis like these one  and I agree 

@BG123: but the difference is I want a real crisis with consequence. The Coop-Quest we got in Endless Legend are good but we can easily ignore them and don't take so much consequence. For the crisis I suggest, I want everybody need to participate (as allied or Foes) or take big consequence about it.  Also , I suggest that for the little take a chance to win at the endgame. I want the crisis are more dangerous for the powerful empire than for the minor empire if you see what I mean ^^

@Echo2361: not sure they do that but that could be freaking epic :p

I hope some Dev see :D

I really like this idea for ES2.  It kind of reminds me of crisis type events in some table top games.  If fleshed out well, this idea could be a great contribution from the community for G2G votes.  It would be great to vote on crisis events and/or suggest them if this were to ever become a feature.  Honestly this also seems like a great idea for Endless Legend as well since Auriga is more or less dying.

Yep, I love the concept and implementation of end game crisis events and Fallen Empires in Stellaris, especially with the newly announced DLC where Fallen Empire's can awaken and begin battling each other.

I suppose it would be pretty cool to see a return of the Endless, with a climatic battle between physcial and virtual with all the species on a map picking sides or just trying to survive on their own. Not something I necessarily need to see, but definitely something I'd enjoy having in the game.

Stellaris has a lot if issues, but its endgame crisis and Fallen Empires were great.  Both would be good additions to ES2, most likely as DLC. 

I believe there will already be a sort of 'endgame crisis' incorporated within the game already, albeit it'll be plot driven rather than randomly generated as in Stellaris. 

There was speculation in some previous thread that because of the way the game has been designed (changes to diplomacy and the existence of a political system) that it seems to be geared towards having some 'crisis' event. There are also Cooperative and Competetive quests, the latter of which, according to GDD 9 has a unifying element to it. 'There could be choices – in order to create a competitive quest: allowing teams – with your allies for example'

This all seems like a good idea, don't want the game to be exactly like Stellaris but it would certainly make the later stages of the game more interesting. However I don't know if it's too late in Development for something like this to be implemented as the Early Access is just around the corner.