Hi,

I started a test-game to see various things with few constellations. As I wasn't interested in finding other people didn't researched any tech to improve probes durability and area. In era III unlocked wormholes, and found this:

Not sure if common, but this long wormholes can make improved probes tech or wormhole techs mandatory if you play in a galaxy with not unique constellation. And wormholes are in Era III.

I hope this can be tweaked before next patch, or you can move techs to male it affordable.

Wormholes should be in Era 2 at the latest. I get that sending out probes is fun, but nevertheless it's missing something. And I think that's map structure.

There's no frantic race to secure the wormhole like in ES1. That was a lot of fun. With early probes and late wormholes there's no gateway systems to defend, territory is just a shapeless blob. It's a step back.

MidnightSun wrote:

Wormholes should be in Era 2 at the latest. I get that sending out probes is fun, but nevertheless it's missing something. And I think that's map structure.

There's no frantic race to secure the wormhole like in ES1. That was a lot of fun. With early probes and late wormholes there's no gateway systems to defend, territory is just a shapeless blob. It's a step back.

I do miss that too, but at the very least, this can be fixed with some numbers tweaking.

MidnightSun wrote:

Wormholes should be in Era 2 at the latest. I get that sending out probes is fun, but nevertheless it's missing something. And I think that's map structure.

There's no frantic race to secure the wormhole like in ES1. That was a lot of fun. With early probes and late wormholes there's no gateway systems to defend, territory is just a shapeless blob. It's a step back.

I agree, but it can be fixed before release, by simply moving wormholes to Era II, probes to Era II and warp drive to Era III.

I don't know, in ES the wormhole tech was just there to avoid zerg rushes, so you could develop your constelation and then be safe against early invasions defending your node.

It felt a bit cheesy, and didn't open back stabbing till late game with the warp travel at high level, which made possible for fleets to bypass the centre and attack straight at the unprotected arm tips (in a spiral galaxy)

In ES2 the warp is achievable earlier, and probes allow you to find planets outside of the standard lanes.

Different ways to play, which allow you to be more aggressive in the mid game.

Eviscerador wrote:

I don't know, in ES the wormhole tech was just there to avoid zerg rushes, so you could develop your constelation and then be safe against early invasions defending your node.

It felt a bit cheesy, and didn't open back stabbing till late game with the warp travel at high level, which made possible for fleets to bypass the centre and attack straight at the unprotected arm tips (in a spiral galaxy)

In ES2 the warp is achievable earlier, and probes allow you to find planets outside of the standard lanes.

Different ways to play, which allow you to be more aggressive in the mid game.

I can't oppose your argument. This is a matter of how you play.

But anyway, if you have to find those far planets with probes, probes tech is mandatory, and warp too, if not enough it will take long time to reach them before getting the Era III tech that adds speed to your warp. If you play like ES1 you still have wormholes as mandatory tech.

The problem is not how you play, but how far are those planets. And perhaps the solution is not my initial proposal of moving techs, but tweaking the galaxy generator to avoid this distances.

Am I the only person who liked wormholes? I liked that they helped add in layers to the exploration aspect. I really hope the aren't suppressed, or made to easy to obtain access to...

Romeo wrote:

Am I the only person who liked wormholes? I liked that they helped add in layers to the exploration aspect. I really hope the aren't suppressed, or made to easy to obtain access to...

 I like wormholes too. What I'm talking about is its lenght. I don't want to get rid of them.

lo_fabre wrote:

Romeo wrote:

Am I the only person who liked wormholes? I liked that they helped add in layers to the exploration aspect. I really hope the aren't suppressed, or made to easy to obtain access to...

 I like wormholes too. What I'm talking about is its lenght. I don't want to get rid of them.

Oh, okie dokie. My apologies, misunderstood.

Romeo wrote:

lo_fabre wrote:

Romeo wrote:

Am I the only person who liked wormholes? I liked that they helped add in layers to the exploration aspect. I really hope the aren't suppressed, or made to easy to obtain access to...

 I like wormholes too. What I'm talking about is its lenght. I don't want to get rid of them.

Oh, okie dokie. My apologies, misunderstood.

No offense.

I was annoyed because this distance forces you to either research nwormholes quickly or research improved probes quicly. Cause if you priorize any other thing you can't go out of your constellation.

But as I saw various improvements in galaxy generation in Amplitude's improvement list, I suspect this things will be fixed soon.

Yeah, I more or less like things as they are - except that I've had some games where finding a way out of my constellation has been tough. 

Ideally, these things are balanced such that there is a strategic choice to make.  E.G., do I go warp drive + enhanced probes earlier and gamble on trying to find my way out of the constellation, or wait until later when I can get wormhole tech to leave?  Maybe wormhole moves down to Era 2 (since free movement + better probes are Era 1 mostly).  

mezmorki wrote:

Yeah, I more or less like things as they are - except that I've had some games where finding a way out of my constellation has been tough. 

Ideally, these things are balanced such that there is a strategic choice to make.  E.G., do I go warp drive + enhanced probes earlier and gamble on trying to find my way out of the constellation, or wait until later when I can get wormhole tech to leave?  Maybe wormhole moves down to Era 2 (since free movement + better probes are Era 1 mostly).  

I've had those too, though I wonder if that's simply an issue of just playing with the RNG Map numbers to ensure there's always a way out. And yes, I definitely feel like wormhole and free-movement should switch places, given that the latter is far superior.

N.N.Thoughts wrote:

Same as Slaunyeh, I'm not too keen on star lanes appearing at the start of your game and acting as the main means of exploring the nearby galaxy. 

Consider this setup: you start out from your home system with no star lanes connected to it. You can:

1) Research technologies that increase your radar technologies / probes to get an idea where the next system might lie. Sophons might have superior radar technologies to start with.

2) Send a scout ship using slow free travel to explore your surroundings. 

As soon as you sight a new system on the map, you can plot an adequate course and travel there (like with star lanes, you can't change course mid-way) at normal speed.

Once you reach the system, you can take your time to plot the most optimal course to your home system (or any other connected system nearby) and this unlocks a star lane where you travel at fast speed.

It's a moot point whether enemies travelling in your space (with no shared map agreement) get the benefit of knowing where star lanes lie. 

Also, I think wormholes could be actual "holes", meaning you can get out anywhere on the map. This would add extra risk and excitement to exploration. 

Good ideas here and in@Slaunyeh post. It remembers when I played Imperium Galactica II.

The only drawback I see here is why I started this post: too long distances to other systems (look at this wormhole!) will cripple you. If you don't have improved probes, where you will send your fleet with actual system that implies you need to see a lane or at least a node?

I have nothing against this system, but like actual want won't work if galaxy generation is not properly balanced. which I hope will be very soon.