This glitch is hard to fix !

Since conquering a system from a faction also gives you citizens from that main faction, I'm not sure it should give you some bonus ?

Kweel_Nakashyn wrote:

This glitch is hard to fix !

Since conquering a system from a faction also gives you citizens from that main faction, I'm not sure it should give you some bonus ?

True, but bear in mind taking over that minor faction through diplomacy is comparatively easy, and provides even better of a bonus. I'm with Lo_Fabre, the current system seems a little too forced. 

Honestly, I'd just apply the bonus to whomever currently holds the minor races' home system. This way you can't early-grab every minor faction with influence/dust just for their empire bonus (which is sometimes kind of extremely strong... 20% bonus for ship building is damn massive), but you actually have to defend these systems. Others can get the bonusses too, of course, they just need to take that home system.

mixerria wrote:

Honestly, I'd just apply the bonus to whomever currently holds the minor races' home system. This way you can't early-grab every minor faction with influence/dust just for their empire bonus (which is sometimes kind of extremely strong... 20% bonus for ship building is damn massive), but you actually have to defend these systems. Others can get the bonusses too, of course, they just need to take that home system.

I like your idea a lot. It would make the minor factions relevant beyond the race to assimilate them for their bonuses. It would also be a significant strategic consideration in wars. I think it would be a lot of fun.

Caelie wrote:

mixerria wrote:

Honestly, I'd just apply the bonus to whomever currently holds the minor races' home system. This way you can't early-grab every minor faction with influence/dust just for their empire bonus (which is sometimes kind of extremely strong... 20% bonus for ship building is damn massive), but you actually have to defend these systems. Others can get the bonusses too, of course, they just need to take that home system.

I like your idea a lot. It would make the minor factions relevant beyond the race to assimilate them for their bonuses. It would also be a significant strategic consideration in wars. I think it would be a lot of fun.

Thanks. 

Maybe having minor factions' home systems in ones empire could also strengthen you diplomatic pressure versus other players? I'm kinda thinking of the city-states of Civ 5 when I think of minor factions, although they are fundamentally different from minor factions, of course.

Caelie wrote:

mixerria wrote:

Honestly, I'd just apply the bonus to whomever currently holds the minor races' home system. This way you can't early-grab every minor faction with influence/dust just for their empire bonus (which is sometimes kind of extremely strong... 20% bonus for ship building is damn massive), but you actually have to defend these systems. Others can get the bonusses too, of course, they just need to take that home system.

I like your idea a lot. It would make the minor factions relevant beyond the race to assimilate them for their bonuses. It would also be a significant strategic consideration in wars. I think it would be a lot of fun.

Two good entries. I agree.

A new adition can be link the estrengh of the bonus to number of minor faction pop in your empire: as example 0.5% to ship production per each mavros you have in your empire instead of flat 20%, provided you have previously assimilated them (or conquered their home system)

lo_fabre wrote:

Caelie wrote:

mixerria wrote:

Honestly, I'd just apply the bonus to whomever currently holds the minor races' home system. This way you can't early-grab every minor faction with influence/dust just for their empire bonus (which is sometimes kind of extremely strong... 20% bonus for ship building is damn massive), but you actually have to defend these systems. Others can get the bonusses too, of course, they just need to take that home system.

I like your idea a lot. It would make the minor factions relevant beyond the race to assimilate them for their bonuses. It would also be a significant strategic consideration in wars. I think it would be a lot of fun.

Two good entries. I agree.

A new adition can be link the estrengh of the bonus to number of minor faction pop in your empire: as example 0.5% to ship production per each mavros you have in your empire instead of flat 20%, provided you have previously assimilated them (or conquered their home system)

Now this is a great idea too, I think. It's also a far more realistic idea than mine. :D

Anyone support an idea that would incorporate my and/or lo_fabre's idea? (Combination of the ideas would be: a flat bonus for having their home system (e.g. 5%) and then each minor faction pop has the same bonus, but much smaller (e.g. 0.5%))

Kweel_Nakashyn wrote:

No, I disagree with that one.

a- you can't choose who will grow in your system

b- you can't prevent those to grow elsewhere.

This is removing the control of the player over those bonuses.

System ownership is better (to me) : it is simple, and most of the time, in gamedesign, simple if it works = better.

There's the religious and ercologists laws to deal with it.

It also will make some things more important:

- Migration

- Ability to get rid of some faction pop (and leave room for that ones that give the bonus)

- More interest in growing pop from minors in your empire.

But thanks for your opinion. I'll take note, and probably think more about it before doing an idea (if I do).

Really this deviated from original thread purpose.

that's why a faction assimilation is a major event that is reported, it's because it means that an empire has gotten it's hands on another passive. (think of it as knowledge they will bestow to their overlords, when you conquer the system after it was assimilated, all the blueprints were already cleared out)

Minor factions are most interesting for this rather than the system you gain while colonizing.

But i think in the future we may get a different system of assimilation (with more steps)00

Kweel_Nakashyn wrote: 

[...]

The thing is, to me, that removing the control is nerfing some strategic elements the ownership of homeworld would give.

If you want a bonus, with the ownership you can make plans to get it and without this it's a long tedious work also involving lots of changes in the core gameplay engine to make this work.

Also, actually scheming to get an homeworld have quite big repercusions in the game. It's changing the diplomacy, politics and have huge interaction with other factions. I like this a lot :)

Won't quote all your post to save place, but I see your point.

Explanation is a little long and would ask devellopement but:

- if "you have only one right arrangement of population", then it's not a game, it's a work => soon people will ask for an autosort button.

- if you have two, or more, arrangement with choices, advantages and flaws, then it's a game.

Not related to actual thread, but this may actually be related on how most of populations bonuses works: "+X FIDSI if on Y planet type". I've read some comments asking for an option to automatically place the pop in the most optimal planet for its bonues (sorry didn't remember the thread, so can't provide a link).

Actually I'm bit worried that the fantastic possibilities of pop management can be turned into what you call a "work" (speaking of actual pop bonus, not the hypotetical MF pop traits) and become less interesting.

The conterpart is you'll have 16 minors + 8 majors pop types (for a total of 32 different pop bonus), which probably will be more tha planet types, making some bonus congflicting with same planet type, forcing player to choose what bonus s/he wants. This way this issue will solve itself as release is near, but still not sure as I don't know how the planet grid rework will be and what are the future pop bonus mechanics.

=> 3rd Idea proposal, then : who ever people are the most in one system gives a bonus.

You could choose to dilute your minor/major faction meeples in the whole empire to help to stabilize the senate OR choose to make strategical majorities on systems to get this new bonus, specializing your systems for efficiency, at the cost of giving non politically represented systems and low approval.

At least you won't have players asking for autosort (aka less frustration to sort "one guy here, here and here so they stfu in the senate" if you can sort them another way.

Mavros would get their +20% on 1 system (this stay local instead of empire wide), yes but if they are 3 guys then it's just +20% of 3 guys).

More interaction and more control is my way to like games so I like the homeworld version better.

(but I can 100% understand one would prefer more optimization and more ressource management: there I just gave this last idea, you can exploit ;) ).

Woa! This is a good idea! Can make players compete for MF control and lots more interesting the pop management.

But all of this could work together: You can have all systems working together by sharing the +20% of Mavros in two.

For the production ship bonus from Mavros, for exemple, +10% (empire wide) can come from the homeworld ownership, and +10% can come from "meeple management" like you (empire wide, % of total pop) or me (system wide, by majority in systems) says.

I'm not sure each of those +10% bonus would be huge enough to worth the pain VS the actual "let's just throw a new +20% building in my ship production system" or "hey I just click level up and bam +20%".

On the other hand, if the bonus were +15%/+15%/+15% (or +10%/+10%/+10%), then the things would find a balance between the bonus that comes from the conquest, the bonus that comes from the management and the bonus that comes from the devellopement (or heroes, etc).

This depends of the whats and hows the devs wants to reward.

Not very fond of this mixed mechanics, but it's a metter of taste, and won't be a major issue for me if something like this is implemented.