ENDLESS™ Space 2 is turn-based 4X space-strategy that launches players into the space colonization age of different civilizations within the ENDLESS™ Universe. Your Vision. Their Future.
When you conquer a star system you need time to "take ownership of it".
This makes sense and blocks instant razing of systems plus gets the original owner a chance to get the system back before it is converted.
A number of issues I find with how the system works now:
- you need the same time to own a small (2 population) system as you need a large (20 population) system.
- a system that was under your influence and was peacefully converted still isn't yours as it turns out.
Solutions:
- assimilation rate for a conquered start system should be not in % but in population / turn.
A rate of 1 population per turn should be and maybe increased to 2 per turn with some Era III / IV tech.
You can speed up the process by: - killing local population (with any diplomatic / approval consequences).
- displacement of population to other systems (approval goes a little down in the systems that receive those for a few turns).
For systems that are taken over with influence there should be no "assimilation" time if you take it over when you have 100%.
But the way I see it you should never have 100% influence ownership of another planet.
Your ownership should be equal to your influence divided by owners influence. This can with a very high difference go to 99% at maximum.
Once you take over a system with influence the % of ownership means this amount of population is already converted and you need to deal with the other the same as with a conquered system.
For me the 8% ownership/turn, both in Es1 and EL made no sense, and was an arbitrary choice. I understand the reasons behind this mechanics, like it and thing it should be in the game, but this arbitrary rate always felt strange to me. Why 8% or not 5% or 10%.
Think it shouldn't be removed, but reworked in a more coherent way, something like what you're proposing.
Two additions to yor ways to remove pop:
- Converting it to manpower and sending kill their kind, can also be a way to ged rid of them and accelerate the process.
- Consider different assimilation, depending of pop origin: original faction 2 turns/pop, your faction pop 0.5 turn/pop, other origins 1 turn/pop. To be honest, not sure about that, as this make lore sense (sending your pop can be a way to subtle convert systems), but can be hard to balance, and lead to awkward moments depending on system pop composition.
On my side you got upvoted. If you want to put it into ans idea, send a PM to me and I'll vote it too.
- Converting it to manpower and sending kill their kind, can also be a way to ged rid of them and accelerate the process.
Good point. Should also be an option.
- Consider different assimilation, depending of pop origin: original faction 2 turns/pop, your faction pop 0.5 turn/pop, other origins 1 turn/pop. To be honest, not sure about that, as this make lore sense (sending your pop can be a way to subtle convert systems), but can be hard to balance, and lead to awkward moments depending on system pop composition.
If this is hard coded then it would be simple for the game to calculate and since it has lore sense it should get implemented.
The way I see it is that you don't have an "unconverted start system" but "unconverted population".
The start system is just a bunch of things.
So you need to assimilate the conquered population and should have various options for that.
The displacement option is something that should be an interesting one.
You don't kill so there is no direct drawback.
You get an approval drawback in the systems to which the population is moved (based on ratio of displaced population to local population).
This could lead to a rebellion on a planet if you don't think about it but that could be your plan from the start so that you kill the "enemy" not a captured population.
A lot of interesting options here.
Will try to sum it up into an idea and post a link here.
- you need the same time to own a small (2 population) system as you need a large (20 population) system.
Yes, same time since this work with manpower. You need to get rid of an ennemy's manpower from their system then replace it with your own manpower.
The population are just the poor guys being invaded, and the invasion time is the time needed to change the white collars I guess.
Then the population isn't under control yet and it grows depending on your approval & food generation (try to put a governor there with + approval + food bonuses : bread & games to "invade hearts", and invading 1x heart would be the same time as invading 1.000.000x hearts).
- a system that was under your influence and was peacefully converted still isn't yours as it turns out.
The system isn't yours until you have this specific era 3 tech, but approval should get very very low there.
Same situation as the other thread: I'll insta invade 5 systems then force truce in 1 turn. All the delays & times are there to prevent blitzkriegs from bully players.
If you want to test ideas, this may be moddable in the same file where the inf radius was (which is [Your drive letter]:\SteamLibrary\SteamApps\common\Endless Space 2\Public\Simulation\SimulationDescriptors[ColonizedStarSystem].xml)
- you need the same time to own a small (2 population) system as you need a large (20 population) system.
Yes, same time since this work with manpower. You need to get rid of an ennemy's manpower from their system then replace it with your own manpower.
The population are just the poor guys being invaded, and the invasion time is the time needed to change the white collars I guess.
Then the population isn't under control yet and it grows depending on your approval & food generation (try to put a governor there with + approval + food bonuses : bread & games to "invade hearts", and invading 1x heart would be the same time as invading 1.000.000x hearts).
I see your point of view and it has logic to it but still I think the ownership process should be adjusted based on side.
You are not taking over a single city but a whole planet or a number of planets so size should matter here.
- a system that was under your influence and was peacefully converted still isn't yours as it turns out.
The system isn't yours until you have this specific era 3 tech, but approval should get very very low there.
Same situation as the other thread: I'll insta invade 5 systems then force truce in 1 turn. All the delays & times are there to prevent blitzkriegs from bully players.
I am not talking about a blitzkrieg war here where you force a truce after 1 turn but the peaceful conversion with influence points.
You don't declare war for that and with current system you already take over the whole system in a single "click".
The idea is that since the population is already under your influence and wants to join your empire why does it take so much time to have "ownership" of the planet just like you would be invading it.
That "ownership" transfer time for systems take over by influence is what I think needs adjusting. (regardless of the whole idea about taking over systems with influence having any sense, that could be a separate thread)
Even before your influence zone reaches all systems you will probably have a war declaration for another player as he won't like it.
Anyway if at Era III and beyond somehow you get a system that is in your influence zone and after the number of turns that it takes (13 if I remember correctly) the system goes under your control you shouldn't need an additional 13 turns to have "ownership".
It is like taking ownership twice for the same system.
Once with influence boarder and then a second time once it is under your control.
In no way you should instantly take over a system in 1 turn right after it is in your influence zone.
- you need the same time to own a small (2 population) system as you need a large (20 population) system.
Yes, same time since this work with manpower. You need to get rid of an ennemy's manpower from their system then replace it with your own manpower.
The population are just the poor guys being invaded, and the invasion time is the time needed to change the white collars I guess.
Don't see like you. With actual system, you can't complete your invasion until manpower reaches 0, by sieging or land battle, what fits better for you.
The ownership thing happens after invasion. It's something you do to deal with civilian opposition (being by bribe, executions, or whatever you want).
Then the population isn't under control yet and it grows depending on your approval & food generation (try to put a governor there with + approval + food bonuses : bread & games to "invade hearts", and invading 1x heart would be the same time as invading 1.000.000x hearts).
IMO that should be only one of the possible ways to deal with civilians opposing you.
(...) So in the best situation just 1 turn.
Please, no.
Same situation as the other thread: I'll insta invade 5 systems then force truce in 1 turn. All the delays & times are there to prevent blitzkriegs from bully players.
Understand mechanics behind it and reasons you don't want 1 turn invasion. As I can accept this working only in the case you invade a single 1-pop system, I can also understand you want minimum of turns to prevent this. But I agree with the core idea: invasion times shouldn't be the same depending on pop numbers, pop composition, military improvements, max manpower cap and even some laws or political regime.
If you look like this: imagine you blitz over 5 systems. You get the following pop: 1, 8, 11, 15 and 23. Accepting there are no pop composition differences, or they're not taking in account, the 1-pop system will get 1 turn to have full ownership (the thing you want to avoid), the intermediates will be near the actual assimilation rate (13 turns?), and the last one will take 23 tuns (almost double than now). Even if you kill one pop/turn in the last system (IMO you shouldn't be allowed to kill ore for balance), it will take 12 turns, which is the same like now, at cost of loosing half of population. Looking at mean times, it should be close to actual state, so similar overall penalties (and accepting this can imply number tweaking and not maintaining the ones in this proposition) if you're not sending everyone to army or scaffold.
As I see after early game this way these kid of blitz are also prevented, except for players who are colonising like mad 1-pop undeveloped systems in early game and start next to cravers (not sure if this is a good idea).
But to be fair I can perfectly understand your concerns, and accept having a minimal number of turns, or having a "standard" number of turns that goes up and down depending on each system pop and other factors.
I completely agree with you that pacific conversion shouldn't be 1-turn, but it should be also compensated by pop and influence to make it a bit more sense. Difficult to maintain balance here if you want something lore consistent.
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