Logo Platform
logo amplifiers simplified

Rating the resource buildings

Reply
Copied to clipboard!
8 years ago
May 24, 2017, 10:48:19 PM

Hi,


I'm a balance freak, I just wanted to share some buildings rating based on balance at current game state. I will try to be as objective as possible, while pointing balance depending on other game factors, like other buildings or hero skills.


I will rate the buildings from 1 to 5:


1 - Mostly not worth the effort.

2 - Very situational or Weak in context.

3 - Fairly balanced.

4 - Powerful compared to similar buildings.

5 - Overpowered, considered a must in resource development.


General premises: Supposedly buildings should give similar or more poweful effects as they are locared in higher eras in the tech tree, also is important to take into account the industry cost in terms of return of investment and opportunity cost.


On building industry costs: I wont say much on these, I feel that the current general approach of building costs doubling the industry needs per era is reasonable (sometimes a bit costly, but manageable)


Base buildings:


E0 - Cerebral Reality: +10 Science/Dust: I find it fine costs 160 industry but you get +20 resources so it pays itself quite fast (8 turns). The science/dust increase is relevant very early. The gold increase will not have rival until near mid-game.

3/5


E0 - Drone networks: +5 industry/food, 2 upkeep: This building is a trap. Just looking at the numbers, is 8 resource positive at the cost of 160 industry, so it starts paying out 20 turns later, at an abysmal rate. Early in the game is just better to skip it and build ships or real buildings.

1/5


Science buildings:


E1 - Public-private partnerships: +10/Planet, +10 Fertile, +10Temperate. Great boost in science! This building could mean from +10 to +40 science from the get-go. Great strategy involvement, as could low/high priority depending on number of planets and types. Maybe is too good compared to E2 and E3 buildings output.

4/5


E2 - Magnetic field generators: +1science/pop, +2 science/pop in planet with anomalies: This is another trap building. Is available pretty early at the cost of 560 industry. The science boost if built very early is mediocre, you usually get +10/+15 science by the time is completed. It goes better as you get more pop and some percentage bonuses, but takes a while to pay off its cost.

2/5


E3 - Optic Research Labs: +25% science if happy. This one provides a nice boost, has more priority on science-heavy systems so has some strategy using it.

3/5


E3 - Graviton-Shielded Labs: +2 science/pop, +30 science. Great boost, also the plain +30 science is great for systems with 1-2 planets. Combines greatly with Optic Research Labs.

3/5


E4 - Punctuated evolution foundation: +4science/pop fertile, +2science/pop cold. Weak boost in science for a L4 building. Could net a nice bonus on some systems but most of the time the boost is mediocre, at the cost of 2k industry! I usually give this one a low priority.

2/5


E4 - F-Reallity Institute: +40% science. This one is solid, teams up quite well with already high science systems.

3/5


E4 - Dark Matter Institute (Unique): +50 science per system level + 10 science/anomaly. The science boost is not bad, but has a high cost of 6k and not empire-wide effects, gets also a low priority.

1/5


E5 - Battlefield Archeology: +10% science, +20% science/war. This gets low priority just because you need to research a L5 tech, and the cost is 4k, so it has low priority even for warmongers. By that point more percentage bonuses on science doesn't have an important impact in science anymore. Is a weird building as usually science is more related to peace, but we don't get any peace version on the standard buildings.

2/5


Industry buildings:


E1 - Xeno-Industrial Infrastructure: +10 Ind/Planet +10 Ind Temperate/Fertile: The top early building, as it can boost industry so much early. Absolutely key and of the highest priority.

5/5


E1 - Interplanetary Transport Network: +1 ind/Pop +3 on planets with strategic deposits: Good industry building, specially because of the low industry cost, and how industry is key early.

3/5


E3 - Predictive Logistics: +20 ind/planet. Fantastic building, really helps out low industry factions, and has some strategy in use, due to the variable return of investment depending on number of planets on system.

3/5


E3 - AI Labor: +5 Hot, +5 sterile. Great building that gives a great industry boost on all desert/ash/lava planets.

3/5


E4 - Fabrication License: +4 ind/pop, +10% industry. Another solid upgrade for industry, the percentage bonuses for industry (unlike science) is rare so even is only 10% is valuable.

3/5


E5 - Hazardous mining facility: +5 ind/pop per strategic deposit. This is the only industry building that doesn't fit. The industry impact in a empire is lower than AI Labor, costs 4k industry and need a L5 tech researched. Usually not worth the effort.

1/5


E5 - Shaft to Shelf System: (unique) +100 ind/level, +10 per strategic deposit: A great industry boost, but is unique, L5 tech needed and 12k industry. Not worth going for it.

1/5


Food Buildings:


E1 - Sustainable farms: +10 food/Planet, +5 food per Hot/Cold planets: A bit on the weak side, the boost is not good enough, but specially because you have two top food buildings that will solve all your food problems on the next era, and you can wait for it.

2/5


E1 - Intensive cultivation: (unique) +25 per system level, +3 per native pop. Not bad, the cost is reasonable, is unique, but can help in systems with very poor food, or in systems to make colony food ships from them.

3/5.


E2 - Epigenetic Crop seeding: +4 food/pop: Too powerful, no other 500 ind building give that kind of boost to a resource. It usually scales food gain faster than the consumption of new pop, and how pop treshold is always the same... The building itself is powerful, but what truly makes it OP-level is the combination with the other food building hanging from the same tech.

5/5


E2 - Intensive cultivation logistics: +10 food/lux deposit, +20% food. The building is great by itself. The food from luxuries is somehow balanced, but the 20% to food is quite strong for a low tier building, even without luxuries, will combo with Epigenetic for lots of food no matter the system composition.

4/5


E4 - Farsighted crops: +10 food/planet, +10% food: This building is a joke, the food boost is comparable to E1 Sustainable farms!!

1/5


E5 - Cloud seeding swarms: +20 food per moon/gas. Another joke building, specially for 4k industry and a E5 tech research.

1/5


E5 - Cultivation institute: +10 food/planet, +10% food: Just like Farsighted crops, but with double cost and 5 Quadrinix cost!!!

1/5


Dust buildings:


E2 - Xenotourist Agencies: +1 dust, +3 dust on luxury planets. Not bad but a bit costly for the effect.

2/5


E3 - Intergalactic supermarket: (unique) +25 dust/sys level, +3 dust/pop. This one is great, even for a unique building but the cost (1,5k) is too high by the time you unlock it. The problem maybe is not the building itself, but the lack of cheap dust buildings to get your money running.

2/5


E3 - Pulvis production: +2 dust and 10% buyout discount. This one is fine, solid but not great. A bit costly and you need to boost production first, so you may end with dust problems up to the point you can build this one.

3/5


E4 - Interspecies cooperative: +10% per friendly factions. I think is something like 10% dust per peace/alliance treaty. Is a good one for pacifist approaches, you should get peace with 3 or more empires to get some dust flowing, with some investment in peace can go up to great bonuses.

3/5.


E4 - Careful sweeping: +25 dust per sys level. This one is not bad at all, means usually 50/75 dust after built, combines quite well with the dust percentage bonuses.

3/5


E4 - Adaptive taxation systems: +4 pop on fertile/temperate: Not only is a bit weak for a L4 building, it competes with the trade upgrade buildings, which will double trade routes exp, income and give happiness/dust as an extra.

2/5


E4 - Smart Tax Collection: 25% dust. This one is even weaker, teams up with the previous building against the trade upgrades, so is not an option.

1/5


L5  MXBA: +10% dust, 10% buyout reduction. Another no-no. Weak bonus for 4k industry, 5 Orichalcix and L5 tech research.

1/5


E5 - Dust anti-trafficking center: (unique) 3 dust/pop + 100% trade bonus. This one is horrible, unique 12k, 10 Orichalcix, L5 tech research...

1/5


Influence buildings:


E3 - National Museum: +1 influence if happy +2 if ecstatic. Fair building for a E3 one, also demands good approval in empire so adds some strategy. The problem we have is that some hero skills are far superior to this (unfallen, seeker, counselor).

3/5


E3 - Culture center: +40 inf/system lvl, + 20% inf. This one is a bit too much for a single source of influence. Is a bit less relevant with OP influence from heroes tough.

4/5


E4 - Body language institute: +10% inf: this one is crap. Such a minor bonus for a 2k industry building...

1/5


E5 - Intergalactic lectures: +5% inf per peace, +10% per alliance. This one is on the weak side. Alliances usually means indirect wars with other AIs, and not obtainable against human players, so this will be about 20-25% bonus on average, of course working peaces/alliances all the way. Would be  decent on a L4 building, but not on L5.

2/5


All FIDSI Buildings:


E2 - Denarque university: +2 FIDSI, +5 influence, +20 approval: While the bonuses are great, 3k industry for a E2 building will halt the construction until much much later in the game.

2/5


E4 - Microwave pipes: +2 FIDSI: This one is just.. WOW. To me the strongest building right now, we are talking about 10 resources/pop here. This building will cover all your needs and push you to snowball quite hard, no matter what victory you're pursuing.

5/5


E5 - Distributed energy: +10% FIDSI: Not only the effect is comparatively a bit weaker than Microwave pipes, it costs the huge amount of 12k industry, just like a L5 unique. By the time i get it I just skip it because of the huge cost, unless I'm on win-more mode, or want to level a few heroes.

1/5


Thanks for reading!

Updated 8 years ago.
0Send private message
8 years ago
May 24, 2017, 11:17:57 PM

I mostly agree with what you said. One very alarming thing about all this is that all T5 are not worth it. For dust building, maybe you should add trading related buildings.

0Send private message
0Send private message
8 years ago
May 25, 2017, 3:18:24 AM

This is a sensible analysis, and I'd like to echo the comment about the weakness of T5 improvements. At the point when Technology Stage 5 opens up, the game is close to over. An improvement has to give excellent bonuses to be able to pay back both its 4480 Industry price tag and the substantial Science cost of a T5 tech before the end of the game. Instead they range from mediocre to bizarrely weak, with the Super Biofuel Factory as the notable exception.


I'm also fond of thinking and talking about balance, so here's some additional commentary on your thoughts about specific improvements. It focuses on the areas where we disagree rather than our many points of agreement just because there's more to say there than "yep, Xeno-Industrial Infrastructure sure is great."


Base Buildings:


It feels like you're overvaluing Dust here. While a few factions can have trouble paying upkeep in the early game (ironically including the United Empire), most have a Dust surplus. I haven't looked at the numbers in detail, but even assuming low inflation, ignoring the technology cost of unlocking most ways to spend Dust, and valuing the ability to spend it anywhere rather than only in the system that makes it, one Dust is worth at most half an Industry. Thus it's odd to say that Cerebral Reality pays for itself in 8 turns even though it is a good source of Dust and Science at a time when both can be scarce. Likewise, if you ignore the upkeep cost of Drone Networks like you ignore the upkeep of every other improvement, it doesn't look so bad. When you're trying to get a low-pop colony up and running in the early game, the sixteen turns that it takes to pay for itself are better than many of your other options.


Science:


I'm agreed that Public-private Partnerships is amazing, but disagree about Magnetic Field Generators. Sure, it's not an early game building, but it's on par with the solid Science improvements in the next Technology Stage by the time you have ten or so population on planets with anomalies. The choice of which T2 Science and Exploration techs to take depends heavily on which planet types you need to unlock, but MFG is a good argument for its tech whenever you don't have a strong need for two out of the Snow/Steppes/Savannah trio.


The rest of your thoughts are spot on, except for the Punctuated Evolution Foundation. It's as weak as you say in most situations, but well worth grabbing when pursuing a Science victory, especially as the Sophons, who want all the Cold and Fertile planets that they can find.


Industry:


It's worth noting that unlike in the other trees, where you can often skip the tech if you don't need the improvement that it grants, five improvements are on resource-unlocking techs. Sure, Xeno-Industrial Infrastructure is so good that Xenolinguistics would be a priority for everyone even if it didn't unlock Titanium, but it also means that Interplanetary Transport Network is unlocked "for free" just as a byproduct of getting Hyperium. On that note, ITN is a nice improvement. You rightly praise Epigenetic Crop Seeding for its +4 Food/pop yield, but ITN gives +4 Industry/pop in the right circumstances for about half the Industry cost. It's quite the bargain.


Just like Punctuated Evolution Foundation has a niche for a Science victory, Hazardous Mining has one for a Wonder victory. The tech is necessary to unlock Quadrinix anyway, so anyone going for the victory might as well build the improvement in the hope of knocking a turn off the time it will take to build the Obelisks.


Food:


Any analysis of Food as a resource has to take into account the fact that any Food above 300/turn or when a system is full and not exporting population is useless. This makes Epigenetic Crop Seeding and Intensive Cultivation Logistics not as powerful as they might otherwise seem. By the time your population, base food yield or number of luxury deposits is high enough to make the 560 Industry price tag worthwhile, you might only have 10-20 turns left to grow or have enough food surplus that you don't need to build both to get close to 300 Food/turn. It also means that the later Food improvements would be terrible even if they had great Food yields. By the time you could get them running in a system, the only use would for them would be to turn it into Industry.


Sustainable Farms is +10 Food/Planet, not +10 Food. It's a bit painful to pick up the tech given that almost all factions start with or will want Off-world Agribusiness and you only need one T1 tech to unlock T2, but it's a great return on investment in many situations and synergizes nicely with the other T1 +10/planet improvements that push you to colonize all the planets in each system as soon as happiness and technology allow.


Dust:


As I noted earlier, Dust just isn't that good. Xenotourist Agencies might be necessary for factions that struggle to handle upkeep, but even the low-to-middling rankings that you give the other improvements feel generous. Pulvis Production is only on par with Graviton-shielded Laboratories if one Dust is almost as good as one Science. Is that really the case?


Influence:


I have nothing to add to your thoughts about specific buildings. Even the best Influence buildings are near-worthless if you have surplus Influence, though. You imply this by pointing out how hero skills are often a better source of Influence, but it might be worth making it explicit.


All FIDSI:


Microwave Pipes are great, but not quite as strong as you say. Even when they're worth the full 10 resources/pop, that means that they'll pay for their Industry cost in about eleven turns in a 20-pop system. Great? Yes. Xeno-Industrial Infrastructure-level great? Not quite. In practice, the Food is often wasted, the Influence is sometimes wasted, and the Dust isn't as good point-for-point as the other resources. They're amazing when you need the Influence and building them lets you skip researching a tech for an Influence improvement or if you have huge systems, but are otherwise merely a solid improvement that benefits from being on the tech that unlocks Antimatter.

Updated 8 years ago.
0Send private message
8 years ago
May 25, 2017, 9:34:55 AM

Mostly agree with you.


Specially about last tier food improvements. Really I only build them to couple with biofuel plant once my systems reach pop cap.


About dust, in long term I found better going for trade than buildings. But this is an opinion based on game XP and to be honest never made the numbers. Also trade is slow to grow, and at first company seems doesn't pays the effort until lvls a bit and you can go for the second one.


Add to this that I feel tha unieque buildings like Dark matter institude or Shaft to shelf should be better. Actually I found that the food one (Intensive cultivation) is very good at game start to avoid loosing pop due to outpost migration (specially if boost with inf), and after that having a farm system is still good as you can produce pop and send to other system using the spaceport. Intergalactic supermarket, feels good to me at game start if you have difficulties with upkeep and a system with good ind that can build it quickly.  It doesn't happens with the sci and ind examples, cause at the time you get them, the bonus you get is meaningless for your science productions, and the industry one is not so noticeable in a 5 lavas + burning giant system.

Updated 8 years ago.
0Send private message
8 years ago
May 25, 2017, 2:02:18 PM
HundredBears wrote:

...

Let me aswer a bit of everything:


My drone network valoration is strongly influenced on very early game:

Well, due to my experience, dust upkeep is only a big concern early. Maybe has something to do with how I play.

Is true that 1 industry has not the same value than 1 gold, but early, both are important.

Return of investments also is only a big concern early: you have only one system and doing the right things there will save you many turns later.

Magnetic Field Generators: That's true but unless you're careful, is a trap building. You have to be very picky with its construction until mid-game and compared with all other L1-L2 buildings is the weakest resource-wise (still I scored it with 2 instead of 1).

On Punctuated Evolution Foundation, I fully agree with you, that's why I scored it with 2 (very situational, weak).

Without epigenetic and intensive, I may have sterile systems with very low food or even negative when the systems are crowded. Food is hard to balance with current design concepts anyways. Is just those two eliminates any food concern once built.

Fixed Sustainable Farms 10/Planet, thanks. I don't consider it bad at all, why it doesn't have a 3 is because there's a much better option in next era, if you have the choice.

Dust: Mostly agree, dust form buildings are a non-issue by the time you get the second trade route.

Microwave Pipes: I praise it so much because of my experience. Once I get it online on my main systems I really start to snowball. I agree that Xeno-Industrial Infrastructure is better, but the ranking doesn't have that level of detail.

0Send private message
8 years ago
May 26, 2017, 3:11:32 AM
Ninakoru wrote:

Return of investments also is only a big concern early: you have only one system and doing the right things there will save you many turns later.

Return on investment stays important throughout the game: you always want to spend your limited Industry on whatever gives you the most value. The less time there is in the game, the more ruthless you have to be about building only those improvements that will pay for themselves and start generating a profit quickly. It might be worth building an improvment with a low rate of return in the mid-game, but if there's only ten turns left before someone wins, you're better off just pumping out another ship or doing a straight Industry->Science conversion, depending on your chosen victory condition.


We're agreed that RoI is especially important early, though. This agreement makes it really weird that you don't value Sustainable Farms more. Sure, Epigenetic Crop Seeding and Intensive Cultivation Logistics are worth a lot once a system is up and running with high population or strong base Food production, but it has to get there first. Consider a system that's just starting out. Xeno-Industrial Infrastructure is up, it's at 2-3 population and you've just colonized a second planet (maybe for the bonus to X-II, maybe to get the resources on it). You can either build Sustainable Farms for at least +20 Food and have hundreds of Industry left over to spend on one of the many high value options you have, or you can build one of the 560-Industry pair for somewhere from 8 to 30 Food. Situations like this are very common in my experience, and Sustainable Farms will get you to the point where the other two are good deals much faster.


Here's one last thought on Microwave Pipes. I might very well rate it as 5/5 under your scheme. We both think that it's a great improvement. It's just that you call it "the best building right now" whereas I don't think it's even in the running for that title.

0Send private message
8 years ago
May 26, 2017, 7:05:00 AM

Well RoI is important through the game, however, unlike on the start, there will be more moments that you don't care so much on how quick the resource will pay off, but instead you try to maximize your resource output or you have time windows for less priority actions.


Sorry I didn't explain myself corrrectly. If think Xeno-industrial is the king of buildings right now, I would prefer playing without Microwave Pipes than Zeno-industrial due to the impact. I feel Microwave Pipes is the strongest building, resource-wise. I'll fix that.

0Send private message
?

Click here to login

Reply
Comment

Characters : 0
No results
0Send private message