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Constant Enemy Retreats.

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8 years ago
Jun 23, 2017, 6:16:27 PM

The constant enemy retreats I find to get annoying.


The idea of an enemy ship outright getting destroyed if health is below 60% is not good enough.


There needs to be a mechanic that will stop a fleet or at least some ships (in a fleet) from constant retreating.


See Idea:  https://www.games2gether.com/endless-space-2/ideas/1008-tractor-beam-ship-module



Updated 8 years ago.
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8 years ago
Jun 23, 2017, 8:57:41 PM

Why not try chasing them down? Unless they're Sophons / Science Boogieeing it shouldn't be _that_ hard. 

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8 years ago
Jun 23, 2017, 9:04:12 PM

Sure,


You can setup a fleet at the two planets the fleet is retreating back and forth between; and when their health drops below 60% they die.


But, this seems a tad boring and can take several ping pongs to eliminate.


Thus bringing me back to the point, the enemy retreats too much and it's a pain to "hunt them down" as they constantly just retreat.


Perhaps the Retreat penalty should be more based on combat strength of the fleets involved.  Example:  if you outnumber the strength of an opposing fleet by a certain factor (and they attempt a retreat), they just die.


The fact that a single ship (of any size) can escape virtually unscathed (minor hp damage) from a huge fleet should not be happening.



Updated 8 years ago.
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8 years ago
Jun 24, 2017, 4:48:27 AM

I have to agree with OP.  Had one game where AI retreated into one of my other fleets and kept going back and forth.  Without full reserve battle tactic, I wouldn't be playing this game.  Ai can spam so much more ships then I can and the retreating gets, as noted annoying.  Another thing I would like to see is full reserve not used from a battle tactic but maybe from a high Lvl skill from your Heroes, this way your not stuck using just one battle tactic all the time.

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8 years ago
Jun 24, 2017, 1:34:35 PM
Aea wrote:

Why not try chasing them down? Unless they're Sophons / Science Boogieeing it shouldn't be _that_ hard. 

It's not that it's hard, it's that it's annoying and not fun. 



Yukon wrote:

I have to agree with OP.  Had one game where AI retreated into one of my other fleets and kept going back and forth.  Without full reserve battle tactic, I wouldn't be playing this game.  Ai can spam so much more ships then I can and the retreating gets, as noted annoying.  Another thing I would like to see is full reserve not used from a battle tactic but maybe from a high Lvl skill from your Heroes, this way your not stuck using just one battle tactic all the time.

Yeah, it's not always necessary, but a lot of times if you don't cleanly take out an opponent, they start spamming small fleets and seiging newly conquered territories which have minimal manpower, so you will get tied up for ages without it.


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8 years ago
Jun 24, 2017, 1:58:10 PM

A well-designed game has balance. Currently, there is no technologies or skills to counter retreating fleets.


I agree with tempted that there should be a way to counter-act the fleeing.  


One of the problems for the game is actual fleet orders.  I propose that someone make an idea for better hyperspace communications. where you can give fleets orders at any time and they change course immediately.  Then, maybe there will be less need for retreating by both the AI and the Player. This should be at least a level 4 tech.


Tractor beams also work and should lower the percentage gained from evasion techs.

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8 years ago
Jun 24, 2017, 3:02:39 PM

It seems to me that there's an interesting solution to this dilemna. In Endless Space 1 there's 3 different upgrades that look like planetary weaponry. Could there not be military upgrades that do a small amount of damage per turn to an orbiting fleet? This gives systems a way to fight back against orbiting beseiging fleets for a dust upkeep cost.


Then again in Endless Space 1 retreating ships took 3 rounds of damaging before being able to flee which worked much better than a flat 60% health loss.


With my proposed change though it would be risky to attempt to clean sweep a suitably upgraded faction, you would need turns idle on home systems to not only refill fleet troops but also to regenerate health. The influence area though would make this also tedious as a recently conquered system can't repair when in another systems influence (and as its recently conquerored it has none of its own).

Updated 8 years ago.
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8 years ago
Jun 24, 2017, 5:09:37 PM

I'm not talking about a big AI Fleet, they do lose some health from retreating.  What happens to the player when one ship retreats most of the time, you die right?  Should be no different for the AI.  Just a suggestion.  A fleet should not be able to retreat more than once in the same turn.

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8 years ago
Sep 20, 2017, 10:10:19 AM

A Jammer module for Support type ships could be introduced, which reduces the chance of an enemies successful retreat by a certain percentage. The module then could come in different tiers with different efficiencies.
* Warp Jammer I            reduces success rate by 25%
* Warp Jammer II        reduces success rate by 50%
* Warp Jammer III        reduces success rate by 75%
Higher tiers require strategic resources.

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8 years ago
Sep 20, 2017, 10:21:54 AM
BarbeQ wrote:

A Jammer module for Support type ships could be introduced, which reduces the chance of an enemies successful retreat by a certain percentage. The module then could come in different tiers with different efficiencies.
* Warp Jammer I            reduces success rate by 25%
* Warp Jammer II        reduces success rate by 50%
* Warp Jammer III        reduces success rate by 75%
Higher tiers require strategic resources.


If balanced properly, this could be an awesome idea!


Personally I'd go for 15%, 30% and 45% success rate

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8 years ago
Sep 22, 2017, 2:30:18 PM

Yes. A known issue. Was discused before here.

Actually not happening as often, but persists. I used same tactic as Tempted.


Also found rare the fixed % loss of HP. I too think this will be more consisten relate it to fleets military power proportion. Same way one ship should be killed against 20Cp late-game fleet, a 8CP vs 10CP mid-game fleed, should not receive that amount of damage.


Another option, may be to relate the probability of retreat to fleet speed and add a bonus to scouts (making them a bit more durable). The bad about this option is that it will clearly play against Riftborn or custom-made factions with low speed.

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8 years ago
Sep 22, 2017, 3:52:04 PM

This is an ongoing issue for me as often as always. Past a certain stage in the game when your ships out-tech the AI they just constantly choose to retreat, even when retreating will result in their entire fleet being destroyed without engaging in battle at all. 


I've even tried toning my fleets down and this continues to be the case. :/


I don't know how complex it'd be but the AI could do with calculating whether its fleet can actually escape to repair/retrofit before choosing to retreat. If it decides when faced with the player's fleet that it will lose, it should prefer to fight to take out as many ships as it can than retreat twice and inflict no damage.

Updated 8 years ago.
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8 years ago
Oct 11, 2017, 5:03:18 AM

Yes, it is very annoying. It's frustrating when the AI constantly throws their ships away by retreating, whereas it would be satisfying to destroy them all in combat if the AI stayed. From the AI's side, if the fleet will be destroyed either way, it is more rational to fight and do some damage than die via retreating - and the AI should behave rationally.

Similarly they often fly towards a battle they (presumably) know they can't win (entering a system they have vision of), then just retreat, which is stupid. If they didn't intend to attack and fight the battle they shouldn't fly into the system.

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