CyRob wrote:

lightblade wrote: Link (it's 2 posts up)

IceGremlin wrote:

...

(...) I think the proposed increase of growth costs can solve most of the problems. Surely the exact numbers might be changed (IceGremlins proposal would have 400 growth costs at 10 population and 700 at 20, which is still to low in my opionion. Maybe the increase should be more linear.) and some new issues might be caused (possibly with migration). But everything at all I think the idea would be a great improvement.

(...)I can’t see a good way to make this system work myself, but that is not to say that there is not one, I’m sure someone will be able to think of a way this system or a new one could work that satisfies your wishes without adding more issues. And I hope that they do and share it here as the game will be better for it.

---

I get that any change requires further changes, but I'm incredibly tired of being unable to use Population and Food as an even slightly effective advantage over opponents. And it's not just a Civilization thing, it was Endless Legend too, and I miss Endless Legend where I could invest in food production as the Vaulters, Allayi, or hell the Cultists, and stay competitive due to my incredibly high Population and population FIDSI bonuses, playing as a technologically advanced and well defended little country of sprawling metropolises that just dares invaders to look at it funny while developing powerful tools for victory through peaceful means.

I am especially disappointed because Endless Space 2 seems to have learned from the design of the Allayi and the Shifters expansion with the use of Curiosities and Exploration mechanics to prevent Tall empires from becoming complacent or too passive since Food and Science can be found in the same place, such that they can actively choose to stay relevant on the world stage, get into fights, and play Indiana Jones while the United Empire plays the Nazis or the Communists without having to get into constant wars of expansion to stay relevant and have fun actively. (Granted, Seeker movement bonuses make Curiosity sniping trivial very early on)

Also, my main issue with the micromanagement is not that I have to do it, I'm actually okay with having some systems be breadbaskets for other systems. Hell, it makes way more sense to me, since lots of nations don't feed their cities with food made on-site, but instead with imported food from afar that gets redistributed from fertile lands to urban areas. My real issue is that I CAN'T do this right now, because I need to sort out my preferred population demographics and get them where I need them very early on; I mentioned it elsewhere here, up above, now recreated here below.

"As for the late game Ecologist laws, I'm going to sound like a broken record here: as long as Food is so cheap and so little of it is required  to grow your Population in smaller or faster games, mechanics related to Population will suffer. In this case, the speed with which you can  grow your Population with even a minimum of food means that you're on a  timer to introduce any and all Populations you want to a planet or  system before it fills up, at which point you need to struggle with  infuriating micromanagement of spaceports and "tragic accidents" in the  space lanes to create room. The only time I ever managed an empire with a  lot of population diversity was when I skipped all of the Food  improvements entirely until I had everybody I wanted in place, and I had  to suffer for it as I lagged behind other empires who simply didn't  bother with these mechanics and grew as fast as possible."

I don't mind shifting around Pops, it's the basis of the Ecologist/Food playstyle, and that is the basis of the Tall playstyle as where wide empires may snatch up Minor Faction empire traits, you have the advantage in gaining Population Collection traits, using your awesome high Approval to attract immigrants where other empires have to take population by force of arms or gigantic borders with passive conversion. I do mind having to micromanage awkwardly, deliberately getting my people killed in convoluted, contrived accidents and struggling with the mind-numbing slowness of transport ships, knowing that between a loaded up colony ships departure and its arrival, all of the population slots on the destination system may fill, pointlessly sacrificing my civilians to the wonky Food system.

In the end, I think the best solution would be a complex interplay of raising Food consumption to prevent non-Breadbasket worlds supporting a too high population, increased Food requirements for each Pop on system, counting Pops in transit for something, and increased Food requirements not for total Pop on Empire, but for average Pop on systems on Empire; this way wide empires don't end up with systems that have only one person yet require 4000 Food to increment, while Tall empires can't get away with pop shuffling to reduce the Increment cost since those other growing systems will still contribute to an increase in Pop cost for the Breadbasket system. But even then, sending away your pops to reduce Pop costs just sounds like the natural permutation of producing many Settlers in one city in Endless Legend on the logic that it will take less time to get a Pop back after losing it than to get a new one, which is how Broken Lords worked so well for going basically infinitely wide.

So yeah, there's my two cents about that. Moving on.

Luxury Upkeep/System Development Control

Thanks, WeLoveYou! It's one of my prouder ideas, luxury upkeeps. Off the top of my head, it would make a lot of factions so much more interesting in world diplomacy; Horatio would have Horatio brand cigars and brandy pouring out their ears with their Luxury bonuses and become the world leaders for luxury in an international sense, while Lumeris would also be capable of becoming the gatekeepers to the galaxies most valuable luxuries, especially as they can snipe those luxuries worlds early on and then charge through the nose for access. If Lumeris could sell off planets instead of just outposts, they could even sell off entire worlds of Luxuries in trade deals on par with the Louisiana Purchase, though right now that's not possible because you'll likely end up completing said outpost long before you're in a position to barter, which makes the whole "selling" aspect of Planet Brokers a bit wonky due to how quickly any given faction can expand.

Government

Regarding a complaint I keep seeing that I agree with in regards to Law and Approval, Dictatorships are bad. Really bad. I think that Approval should never get better for them, because rebellions and unhappiness are the price you pay for Dictatorship; however, that price currently comes with no real benefit, because being able to pick your party (but only one, and you get one law slot) is a boost to versatility where the Rebellions and disapproval are a debuff to power. Instead, I think Dictatorships need to have stronger laws, like the Republic, except in the case of Approval laws which should stay at normal power levels. Particularly, I think Dictatorships should have a whopping power boost to laws; where the Democracy gives +6 Industry/Pop, and the Republic gives +8Ind/Pop, Dictatorships should give +10 or even +12 Industry/Pop, to make up for that being your only law, your constant inability to shift parties due to disapproval, the constant rebellions... a Dictatorship should always feel like they are sinking and fighting their own people, but having a bloody good time doing it, fiddling as Raia burns. There should be more cases where the rebellion wins and the player can say "well, my government had a good run," as any dictator would believe as the mob breaks down the door. Immense power, for immense benefit, and immense long term risk of collapse, instead of just a mild risk of collapse with no real power to justify it.

I've also seen some complaints that Democracy and Federation are a bit too weak, which I can get behind. Particularly, Federations didn't provide enough benefit, and while Democracies were more flexible they were also less flexible because they can't be controlled in the elections, and +1 Approval/Pop is really weak in most situations, especially since it no longer helps overcome the massive per Pop Disapproval from harsh planets; +1 Approval per Pop could break even with a -20 Approval planet when you hit 20 Pop, whereas now you can never break even because each Pop is simply changed from -X approval to -(x-1) approval, changing the worst malus from -8 to -7 but never overcoming it. 

I think it would be better if Democracies provided a lot more Approval, and possibly bonus FIDSI on Happy or Ecstatic worlds to create more effective synergy; meanwhile, this new update buffs Federations a bit because of the overall reduction to the Overcolonization threshold, but Federations could do to have this bonus increased a little bit more, and/or an additional Influence/Pop bonus to make Federation the government type for cheap laws where Republic is the government for powerful laws, with Democracy being the government for stabilizing your empires approval and economy before laws are even accounted for.

TL;DR; 

Luxury Upkeep for System Development: This would create massive mercantile play and counterplay, and empower factions who focus on the Luxury side of economics contained in the Science and Exploration Quadrant.

Revamped Food to enable Tall Empires: Food is currently superfluous in regards to its primary role, growth. CyRob makes some great points about potential pitfalls for improving this aspect of gameplay, but enabling a Food empire to outpace its non-Food opponents with Population size and growth is a must to enable other aspects of gameplay and prevent the game from devolving into a slugfest over expansion.

Improved Exploration: Exploration has potential to prevent "tall" being synonymous with "passive," in much the same way that the Shifters expansion and Quest victory for Endless Legend prevented tall empires from simply vanishing from world politics, and forced them to bring the fight to their enemies and take the time to actively compete instead of passively snowballing toward victory.

Improved Governments: Make the following possible changes to the three weaker Government types, so they can compete with the Republic:

- Empowered Dictatorship: Make Dictatorships even more unstable in terms of approval and rebellion if created in a hostile political atmoshpere, but in return make their laws even more powerful than those of the Republic, allowing the Dictatorship to be the epitome of strength, but also inflexibility. Possibly incentivise not switching laws too often, to reinforce this loss of flexibility?

- Relaxed Federation: Give Federations slightly more Overcolonization bonus, as well as allow them to pass laws more cheaply, either by making laws cheaper for them or boosting Population Influence, turning them into the government for smoothly running a vast bureaucracy.

- Boosted Democracy: Increase the Approval bonus from Democracy, and possibly either provide a FIDS/Pop bonus empire wide, or percentage bonus FIDS on happy systems, making Democracy the best government for people who want social harmony and a stable economy but have no particular interest in manipulating their people with specific laws.

So first off, let's please not add any more background civilian ships. Between trade and colonization and Population shuffling, especially on the part of the AI who greatly enjoy shuffling their pops with a furious zeal, ships for a national food redistribution system would be the straw that breaks the camels back on my rig, especially if I have enough Influence and vision range to see it happening in other empires.

But more to the point, regarding Governments, my suggestions were moreso based on other peoples complaints I'd seen before. Personally, I've never known Democracy to be too weak, though I wish the Approval bonus was a bit higher now since it can't counterbalance the Taxes Act anymore and will now have to compete with Disapproval per Pop from harsh planets due to the changes the devs are making. As for Dictatorships, I don't think they should be aggressively expansionist, as historically most Dictatorships seem to have been built not on expansionism but isolationism; expansionism is only what happens when a Dictatorship becomes strong, but usually Dictatorships pop up where countries are weak, such as those with failing economies and social unrest where someone decides the problem isn't that we can't get along, but that everybody else won't go along with the plan.

So that said, WeLoveYou, the idea of Dictatorship being a prejudiced monoculture built around its Chosen People and Chosen Ideology makes a lot of sense to me, especially as our only examples so far are both prejudiced monocultures, the Cravers and Horatio. However, this could make for some weirdness if people were otherwise running a diverse empire, especially one which is Ecologist but not Horatio, and thus has state-enforced diversity; as such, I suggest that in a very weird spin on old mechanics, Dictatorships provide bonuses to Population with Senate representation, that is to say anyone who supports the chosen Party, allowing room for other peoples so long as they all agree with the Emperor on the basic choice of political party. I also like your idea for shifting power at will, Stalker0- if there are no elections because I pick the winner, why can't we pick a new winner when we please? The issue of being too flexible should (but isn't necessarily) be covered by the Disapproval that comes with convincing the whole country to support one party, and then switching out for another, as people supported the Regime when it was one thing but now it's different.

I will point out though that I only wanted Dictatorship to have yet-more issues in a hostile political atmosphere- that is, one where your choice runs counter to the will of the masses.

In regards to the idea of Luxury Upkeep for System Development, I actually have an Idea I cooked up for it called Luxury Addiction, where I suggest that System population contribute to a growing upkeep cost for that systems development levels, forcing players to actually consider using the Resource boosting planetary specializations and improvements, as well as investing in Luxury Freighters on Trade Routes, if they want to develop a large amount of their empire and keep it stable. When you go into a Shortage (luxury bankruptcy), you are forced to start shutting down those bonuses for your systems to break even, creating an Approval malus on those rationed systems that gets worse with time. Eventually, like Empire Rebellion, the mass shortages and approval maluses lead to your System Development Projects being retroactively broken, and your choice of luxuries for them reset, giving you a chance to reorganize your choice of luxuries while the Approval malus winds down again. This would force players to be careful about what they boost with, who they trade with, where they invest, and wouldn't necessarily require "Luxuries per Turn" deals as you could purchase stocks directly to buffer against shortages. It would of course also require that Luxury boosting improvements be available across more eras and possibly other tech quadrants, so players can meet these costs; fortunately upkeep can be measured in fractions of a whole Luxury deposit to prevent massive numbers.

As to this whole Food Pool solution of yours CyRob, I bloody love it! It can be shown fairly easily as "-X Food from Empire Contribution" and "+X Food from Empire Redistribution," it can play well with Siege mechanics as a system could now lose access to the Food pool, it reinforces the idea that these are advanced empires with excellent food preservation and transport technologies (one of the very first techs is, after all, Infinite Supermarkets) rather than little self-sufficient feudal fiefdoms in the style of Endless Legend, and it does it in a simple and easy-to-grasp way. There is however a small obstacle, or perhaps even just a quirk, which is that this system is reliant on the notion of the Breadbasket World (or Agri-World for us 40k fans) to make sense, which doesn't play nicely with System Improvements; you make it sound like there are a handful of worlds comprising the Breadbasket, but System Improvements mean that any system can be fully developed for Food, with only the Unique Cultivation improvement and System Development for Food providing designated breadbaskets. 

I think the Food unique improvement would need to be changed up to allow for this, possibly moved to a later era and its effects buffed much higher, maybe to something like +10 Food per Pop, +50% Food per System Level, and moved all the way up to Era 3 as a major incentive to take a break from the Economy quadrant to invest in Empire Development. Even this would only create room for one designated, high quality Breadbasket world, probably your Capitol, but it would at least allow the Breadbasket to make some sense by designating that one world to be a very strong Food producer for the empire. The Economy quadrant entices you to hit Era 3 with the potential of Trade Routes; the Empire quadrant entices you similarly with the prospect of a powerful Breadbasket world.

I'm not really sure any of this is a problem per se, as it still creates excellent gameplay, and in the case of the strategy of going Tall early and Wide late, fits well into a Religious strategy of absorbing systems with Cultural Conversion- you run a Tall empire with high Influence and Food production, then change tack upon unlocking Cultural Conversion, using your old Tall empire as the breadbasket for your newly converted worlds. It looks elegant on paper, just a bit quirky, and in my opinion deserves testing even if it's just one of us punching numbers in a calculator.

On the note of Riftborn as well, I don't think they should be counted for either Consumption increases (clearly) or Growth threshold increases. They're already disincentivized from producing Food, no need to punish them further if they decide to play Ecologist Riftborn with other peoples, especially as its a legit strategy supported by their questline.

Jeeze, I need another TL;DR- I like the idea of Dictatorship as a monoculture, but it should be for political views, not populations. Luxury Upkeep would provide room to restrategize in the event of a shortage leading to economic collapse, but ONLY in that event, to prevent people constantly shifting their luxury choices; your people are addicted to a specific luxury. The Food Pool is brilliant, but it's worth noting that it creates some quirky effects, and means the Cultivation unique improvement needs to be moved to a later era and majorly buffed to create an effective Breadbasket system.

Ok, I have tested out the new mod a couple of time (both on Cravers because they are who I'm most worried about) and I have some positive and negative reactions:

#1: The happiness changes are INCREDIBLY punishing as expected. They basically make using the Cravers' slave driving ability impossible while mainting a content or better system. The only way to circumvent this (as usual) is to use the Jingoist Bill and declare war and literally everything that you find. I honestly hate this mechanic. I find it stupid and immersion breaking. Why would I declare war on a civilization on the other side of the galaxy that I will never come in conflice with for at least 30 turns? Why would this make my citizens happy? While this is a militaristic mindset, it doesn't reward a militaristic playstyle. You could just as easilly decalre war on everyone and never attack and you get the same benefit of a player constantly building ships and conquering enemy civs.

I suggest changing the Jingoist Bill to reinforce militarism through the mechanics of the game rather than its current incarnation. To do this, you have to incentivize the successful execution of miliarist actions. If, for example, you got +2 happiness for 5 turns for each battle won and +5 happiness for each successful invation for 10 turns, the player would be forced to maintain a very militaristic playstyle to continuously renew these bonuses. This mechanic is much more dynamic and fun than the staic and boring, find major or minor civ, declare war, profit, formula that is currently in place.

#2: While I really like the new Us or Them mechanic, it feels like a lackluster reward for conquering another civilization. What I mean by this is that the bonus happiness is supposed to reward the player for a long and victorious war (and mechanically, compensate for the happiness penalty for all the systems you just took). Paying 3 Inf/pop and a law slot for +40 happiness (+60 if you're lucky or later in the game) is just not sufficient to counteract the massively increased overcolonization and general happiness penalties. The result is that acutally going aggressive and taking out another civ throws your entire empire into choas and ends up being more detrimental than beneficial (in the short term at least).

#3: Using the Cram Exam Law (can't remember the name), Cravers' science is STUPID. I was able to hit 1000 science by turn 27 (proof) with only a moderate start. This gives that an enormous techa advantage and further excentuates their already overpowering early game. I would happily sacrifice a significant amount of their early power for a smoother curve and transition into the mid and late game.

#4: The Cravers Ch.1 quest ship is still super overpowered.

#5: I love the changes to Drone Network

Suggestions

#1: With all the new happiness changes, I think Slave Drivers should cost -5 happiness/slave instead of -10. This would actually make it possible to moderate the depletion of your systems and prevent a total economic collapse at turn ~70. Now I understand that this is a HUGE buff to Cravers, but these happiness changes impacted them far more than any other civ. Many of my other suggestions will help nerf their early game to try and make up for this change.

#2: Change the Ch.1 quest ship. I think this is actually the primary source of the Cravers' overwhelming early game. It's fast, it's powerful, it's full of extra manpower (a very scarse commodity for early Cravers) and it allows them to fill their 6 CP early fleet insanely fast. It's not the actual ship that is the biggest problem, but the ease with which it can be aquired. The story is that this ship is flying around harassing and destroying your ships, so why would it suddenly stop when running into a blockade set by a single, weak ship? Change it so that it is as aggressive as a pirate (blockades and attacks) and you get the ship after you actually beat it in combat. This would significantly delay when it can be aquired and give other players time to acutally build up a defense against it. Also, there is no reason that it should keep it's 9 MS. Just nerf it to 5 like every other Cravers ship.

#3: I'm not acutally sure how to fix the science issue. It is a byproduct of several changes made in this patch (getting Loyal is now impossible at turn 1, Super Tax Act is now far too punishing, etc.), and the Cravers' inherent multipliers on undepeleted planets. I don't want to say, "increase the happiness penalty" because that would make every single law inviable for the early game, but this is defitely a problem.

#4: I would tweak UoT just a bit to give +30/capital and +10/minor civ assimilated. This would give you ~+80 happiness in the midgame as opposed to the +200-300 in the current patch (not the mod)

4xAlchemist wrote:

(...) I suggest changing the Jingoist Bill to reinforce militarism through the mechanics of the game rather than its current incarnation.

(...)

#1: With all the new happiness changes, I think Slave Drivers should cost -5 happiness/slave instead of -10. (...)

#2: Change the Ch.1 quest ship. I think this is actually the primary source of the Cravers' overwhelming early game. (...)

#3: I'm not acutally sure how to fix the science issue. (...)

#4: I would tweak UoT just a bit to give +30/capital and +10/minor civ assimilated. This would give you ~+80 happiness in the midgame as opposed to the +200-300 in the current patch (not the mod)

Some of this I like, but I see some ways your suggestions could be changed.

I think players shouldn't only be encouraged to be aggressive as Militarists, since the Militarist party also covers defensive wars and is supported by many events where the empire is on the back foot against their aggressors, including "building system defenses," "experiencing blockades, sieges, or enemy proximity to home Systems," and "enduring territorial loss." As such, I would rather see a law that encourages non-Militarists to pick up the party in the event of war, and encourages offensive Militarists to get into the rhythm of recurring wars. Something like this:

"Jingoist Paradise: +20% FIDSI for 5 turns when signing a Truce, destroying an Empire, or activating Jingoist Paradise. +10% FIDSI for 5 turns upon conquering a Minor Civilization"

This encourages you not to be randomly aggressive or declare wars on random strangers, but instead start wars with the intention of ending them. As such, you can't properly exploit the effect unless you make good on your threat and push your opponent to the point of Truce, so you can later declare War again and start the cycle anew, following the intended rhythm of "war, truce, war, truce" from the GDD. By adding the effect on activation of the law, factions who are the victims of a surprise war can ride the outpouring of public support into a concerted effort at a counterattack by pushing the Militarists to the front of the Senate; empires who aren't normally Militarists but switch to that party may consider using the bonus to prepare an invasion they weren't otherwise planning. The Cravers likely will never "activate" Jingoist Paradise because they'll never actually elect a non-Militarist party, so the first time they get this effect will likely be upon finishing their first war. The law is deliberately similar to the old Pacifist mandate, modified to provide a much greater but very temporary boost, since Forced Peace will now be in its place.

As to your other points

1.) I think WeLoveYou's idea of monocultural Dictatorships and my idea for shifting towards monopolitical Dictatorships could help here; increase the population Approval bonus from Leading political parties in System for Dictatorship/Autocracy. This would give Cravers and Horatio significantly more Approval to spare for Super Tax Act, and help offset Slavery maluses if you have enough Cravers keeping the system under control; 50% more Approval lets two Cravers counteract one Slave (12 Approval vs -10), 100% more lets one Craver almost counteract one Slave (8 vs -10). Play with the numbers of each until the preferred ratio of Slaves to Slavedrivers is achieved, while non-Craver Dictatorships deal with normal Disapproval rates.

2.) Maybe it would be better for it to be a fast Attack ship? Something to help swat Pirates, but only carry a relatively normal number of troops; alternately it could be loaded down with Debris Analyzers or some sort of Dust Salvager modules, encouraging the player to pick fights but not steamroll enemy worlds, per se, because I am fairly certain it has some sort of invasion modules right now.

3.) Maybe trade out for Brains over Bucks? Science per Pop is bonkers for any fast growing empire or empire with good pops like Cravers, but 20% is 20% is 20% no matter what. That way you can either have Dust at the cost of Approval, Science at the cost of Dust, or Approval at the cost of Industry, which might I add may be able to justify increasing the debuff. Alternately maybe just give Cram Exam act the same cost as Super Taxes Act, so you can have only one or the other. That's about all I got, I'm afraid.

4.) I don't like it being for assimilated minor civs since they get snapped up fast, long before this law activates, and your bonus is too small to do more than offset the systems own Overcolonization penalty; a Militarist empire should conquer these worlds to help improve their overall Approval down the line, not leave it the same, or worse if you conquered some planets in between. We just need a visual marker for Minor Civ systems like Capitols have, and they can become clear strategic objectives in war, especially if more effects care for them like Black Market Taxes for Lumeris.

Played another couple of games with the new mod and found some more execution problems and bugs with the happiness system. 

Meedoc said:

For now, Biophobic has been changed to provide:

 +10 approval per pop on Sterile Planets

-2 approval on Fertile Planets

(keep in mind that by default Sterile Planets provide -8 approval; the net approval will be +2 approval per pop on Sterile with Biophobic). 

The idea is to keep the mechanics attached to a trait for customization and not to the population itself.

but when I actually went and tested this, it is not the case. As seen in this screen shot, the system is getting +12 happiness from having a single population on a lava planet (+20 from biophobic, -8 from standard happiness penalties). It should be +2 from planets (+10 from sterile, -8 from lava).

Additonally, all deposit based happiness benefits (e.g. +4 happiness/pop on a planet with transvine) don't work. They are simply not calculated in the final "+X from planets" happiness section and are not represented anywhere else in the breakdown. Thist can be seen here (should be +4 from planets (+2 from Garden of eden, +1 from Jadeonyx, -1 from Savana, x2 from pop number)) and here (should be +8 from planets (+4 from transvine, +1 from Dust trees, -3 from Arid)). To top it all off, the happiness bonuses from using tansvine in you system modernization also don't work. In the second screenshot, there should be "+10 from system moderization", but there isn't and it is not included into any other section.

One last thing not associated with the patch or its execution, slave populations shouldn't add additional unhappiness for not being represented by the political party in charge (see the second link). It specifically states that all non-Cravers are excluded from voting and the system in general and we are already getting huge happiness penalties from having them as slaves.

Maser wrote:

IceGremlin Wrote:

(...)

I don't like that version of jingoist paradise, it's too complicated and requires weird gameplay to take advantage of it fully. The "activating Jingoist Paradise" part, for example, rewards you for toggeling the law on and off every 5 turns for no apparent reason. Declaring war only to force a truce also seems weird and out of sync  with the game's other goals with warfare. "Destroying an empire" is also  very hard to do, since you need to find every single system of theirs  which can sometimes be difficult.

I like 4xAlchemist's suggestion more, with +30/capital and +10/minor civ. Maybe a +5/captured system would work?  (...)

First of all, you can't toggle your governments basic law, so the only  time it gets activated is if you switch political parties or change  governments, which is a massive opportunity cost for a slow benefit; second, Forced Truce is the perfect mechanic to key off of, because it only happens when you're getting your  ass kicked or kicking someone else's ass, which only happens if the  fighting is fierce, and fierce fighting is what we want to reward  Militarists for. It also fits the goals for war in this game just fine,  as the GDD specifically says that wars are meant to go for a while, sign a truce, and then leave room to recover, instead of eating a whole empire in one war. There is a much simpler way  to word it, but it also doesn't work with how stuff is worded in ES2:

Jingoist Paradise: +20% FIDSI for 5 turns after a Forced Truce. +10% FIDSI for 5 turns after conquering a Minor Civilization.

That works better, but it's also not properly worded for the ES2 description generation from the code, and will thus look like my original version anyways. Also, it now can reward you for switching to Militarists on the defensive, since it will give you a bit of FIDSI to bounce back after losing badly. And we want it to do that, otherwise Militarists won't be as willing to risk wars where they lose.

While I like the idea of adding Vodyani style razing to all factions, it's a poor idea for a Militarist. Razing should be what an isolationist empire does when they want to wreck their enemy, but aren't interested in having more worlds dragging down Approval. Militarists should want to conquer the galaxy, and providing Approval bonuses from conquering certain systems does that well; but rewarding people for conquering Minor Civ home systems provides a specific strategic goal, which creates interesting gameplay because both sides know that some worlds are more important than others. 4xAlchemists suggestion didn't do that, because it was worded for assimilating minor factions, which doesn't happen later in the game when you should be using Us or Them to support your wars of expansion.

Cheers,

I appreciate the effort put into this balance mod and the close communication of community and devs here so - consequently -I'll gladly give some feedback from a few games I’ve played with the current iteration of this mod (July 26^th). Suggestions (indicated in italic) made below, especially numbers, should be considered subject to balance before implementation. 

-be warned, long text ahead -

Basic Laws (the ones independent of your faction chosen)

From my understanding – correct me if I am wrong – basic laws should be inferior and more situational than the faction specific laws. I think this has been provided in most cases and the word „situational“ is to be read as an achievment in the following section.

Super Tax Act -  Outside the balance mod this law is too good early game as the approval penalty per pop is marginal. The initial -30 approval was too much and the -20 now feels borderline playable (basically only applicable if in dire need of dust or if you are playing Lumeris with their optimistic trait). I would appreciate an iteration with -15 approval.

Toys for Boys - I like the way this has changed. The -10% industry hurts much more than the science debuff giving the player the incentive to think twice before activating it.

Larger Hosts Bill - Situational enough and balanced in my opinion. Arguably this is no law for the early game and could be moved to the next tier. Currently I do not see a law to switch it with though.

Brains over Bucks – this seems fine. However this already kicks in at a point where you have access to your faction laws.

Cram Exam – Never used it. While struggling with overcolonization in the midgame this is unaffordable. If approval is not a limitting factor, this may go overboard with highly populated empires (as e.g. stated by 4XAlchemist).

Senator Bob – Never used it. Considering overcolonization again this law is as good as your weakest system, which usually is not enough.

Parks not Quarks – Situational (which is fine) I would consider it only if I went for the (boring and easy) economic victory. 

Save Skies (Dictatorship) – The flavor strongly fits dictatorships and I like the incentive of this law. 25 approval seems fine considering the ship and law slot investment.

Wartime Taxes (Dictatorship) – Situational and fitting the theme. Not playtested though.

Now on to the faction laws, where I believe a certain flavor (beware, you may see this word often below) must be given to fit in, additonal to the balance issues.

Pacifist Laws

Balance, pacing of the law progression and flavor feels very fitting and rewarding now. This balance mod is a great improvement of the pacifist playstyle. Please try to push all other factions to this level. 

Right Thing - This law is fine and it fits the pacifist flavor. Please implement this into the game. The +1 Influence make UE a bit sad of course.

Trusted Broker – allthough changed to +3% per turn to avoid toggling this law for one turn, it feels bad. At the end it is a tradeoff limited to influence and in my opinion a mathematical exercise (one of the more annoying ones tbh.) and rarily worth the law slot.

My proposal would be: Passivly adds +1/per turn to relationship of discovered minor civs and applies +1 diplomatic pressures to all major civs you encountered (subject to balance e.g. only major factions in cold war state). I could also see it applying to cultural flexibility (piecefull takeover of enemy colonies) once unlocked. The focus of the law would remain on influence and diplomatics, which fits the flavor.

Make Love not War – Reallly love this law in combination with right thing. Keep it, implement it. Mostly depends on the number of AI's.

My Precious / Fair Trade Law – Also very good. Fitting the flavor and balanced in my opinion allthough it strongly depends on the number of AI's.

Sciencist Laws

Flavor and strength of the science laws could be improved in my opinion. 

Oracle of Wisdom - I do think this law is providing a lot of flavor to the scientist party, allthough it feels quite situational to me as usually the bottleneck in research is your science per turn and some mandatory techs much rather than being restricted by your era. Arguably one could switch this with the tier 1 law, thus toggable if needed.

Dirty Hands Act - I think this law is fine and I like the swap of Starboogie and Dirty Hands Act, however I always felt Dirty Hands to be a pretty boring law.

I suggest implementing a tweaked version of the minor faction trait „Thinkers and Tinkers I“ as a law instead of Dirty Hands act. This really would capture the feeling of doing science by exloring space and constantly improving with the things found.

The law would read +0.75 Industry (subject to balance e.g. 0.5 Industry or 0.25 FIDS) per curiousity discovered to systems. I do believe the faction trait "thinkers and tinkers" currently implemented into the game is to strong and should be nerfed but it scales well along the game and gives the player a good incentive to adapt their playstyle to being scientific.

Star Boogie Bill – Now that this moved up a tier, this should be improved in my opinion. Add one probe to all ships (if possible and balanced considering you could toggle it on and off in a turn) or think of something else. Flavorwise this is fine.

Need to Breed – I did never consider this law, especially as food looses strength in the endgame. Flavor is hardly given for this one.

Mine’s Bigger – This is fine. Very situational and definitely not the law you would aim for all game long as a scientist. I would move (and tune) the law down one tier replacing Need to Breed, with the new tier 4 law being:

Collected Notes Law – Gives X Approval and X FIDSI to systems based on the number of techs researched (or the number of tech eras reached). This would award players for the research they did all game. Honestly the bonus this law may give could be anything reasonably scaling with techs and while preserving balance. But the flavor of harvesting your research (or collecting your notes) should remain. Bonus points for giving incentive to research all the techs (especially lower tier techs that are skipped and remain skipped since the start of the game).

Ecologist Laws

The ecologist laws are - in my opinion - to be improved balancewise. Flavor is given but not overwhelming.

Hardship Ready – This fits the flavor. I would tweak it to give 50% food bonus while colonizing a system if the corresponding planet type colonization has been researched. This way the law would not loose so much power in the middle / late game.

Green Fertility – This law is the kind of randomness I dislike in games. It may give players the incentive to prefer systems with anomalies but this is rarely the deciding criteria (fertile + temperate...) and much rather increasing the difference of good and bad starts for ecologists. 

I suggest following replacement: +4 Food, +3 Industry, -2 Dust, -2 Science per pop. Essentially this gives +3 focussing on growth of your systems while crippling other areas. I would forfeit the connection of laws to anomalies in any case.

If too strong one could tweak this new law to exclude pops of your starting race, giving an early incentive of focussing on race diversity.

Cool copies – I think this law is good, however I never bothered opening the tab and spending time to push growth of specific races. But this is mostly due to the next two laws being underwhelming.

Power to the People / All Hands Dictum – These are too weak as the size of systems is limited and the micromanagement necessary would be high considering the benefit. I suggest a dependency on the population thresholds reached. E.g.: increases science by 2/4/6% per population threshold of 10/20/50 reached. Less micromanagement, same incentive. Same would apply for the industry law, allthough the theme feels repetitive. Maybe a good idea would be to move the era 5 tech here, which converts food to industry on full systems. This would give ecologists a signature law and a clear aim for their end game progression (as well as fixing lategame issues of food becoming meaningless - at least for ecologists).

Industrialist Laws (bear with me I do not have the correct names of most of these laws in english)

I think the industrial laws are ok. Not overwhelmingly flavorful but sufficient.

New Colony – I still do not know whether this is restricted to the system or an empire wide buff. In either case it temporarily may boost you to happy or exstatic but is no solution to overcolonization.

+15

So I know we're supposed to go over the mechanics and changes of the Mod in here, but at this point the thread itself feels very chaotic. Every post has been a gigantic essay (and I am very guilty in that regard) where we cover the laws of every single political party AND the generic laws, the government systems, Overcolonization, economics, Food, population growth, the whole nine yards because of how interconnected it all is. I think while this has been a bit productive, it would be better if the thread was closed and a new one opened on a very specific topic, like just one or two political parties, or just Overcolonization, or just fixing Growth.

So to answer the question "What should be the next balance focus for you?" my answer is that we should hit the brakes on the current balance focus, drop the Approval topic entirely, and switch gears to look only at Political Parties right now so that the debate can be a lot more focused and moderated. Especially because the depth of either topic, let alone both, is enough for gigantic essays that really highlight the need for a Spoiler Button system so we can separate our posts into digestible sections.

As to the most recent topics covered by Kynar:

Trusted Broker theoretically encourages us to produce more influence, but the nature of Influence as such a limited resource does make it a bit counterintuitive. It's okay that it makes us use up Influence; the real issue is that Influence, like Food, Industry, and Dust, is a resource without a lot of straightforward Improvement support. Most Influence sources are complex or weak. Diplomatic Pressure doesn't help much, unless you have military to back up Demands, which the AI won't necessarily grasp.

"this is rarely the deciding criteria" Yeah, that's part of a larger issue of all the Stage 1 techs caring about planet type, which I personally believe shouldn't even be a concern until at least Stage 2 or 3.

Hardship Ready that would actually be a decent improvement, I would like that.

Dirty Hands Act: Thinkers and Tinkers works well because of it's ability to scale down the road, but this law is needed to account for the immediate Industry deficits of Scientist factions, which I mentioned earlier. Your suggestions for Mine is Bigger and Need to Breed I like, and a law improving FIDSI based on your willingness to move forward in Era's is good.

Oracle of Wisdom: You make a great point about bottlenecks and mandatory techs, which is something I have an Idea for here. Right now, if you're not researching Strategic Deposits, you're doing it wrong, since you're not gonna be able to reliably build anything else you research until Strategic Resources are out of the way. I mean, maybe you can just get lucky with Curiosities or buy it all out, but the first is unlikely while the second is only a symptom of the dominance of Trade Routes, and thus not really a good thing.

Cool Copies/Power to the People/All Hands Dictum: All three of these laws make less sense because of how Food works, which is an issue that really needs to be fixed and revamped before any other Food or Pop related fixes can be made. I for one find myself ignoring them because their related mechanics are too much of a hassle next to just expanding and cracking skulls.

The Religious Party makes a lot more sense if you look at it a certain way, and keep in mind past Influence based factions and mechanics. It takes a lot of inspiration from factions like the Morgawr, Drakken, and Cultists of Endless Legend, bringing together a lot of their mechanics, like Fast Learner, Village Conversion, a natural propensity for Approval improvements and Hero development. The Religious Party lets you suppress or bypass various game mechanics, breaking the rules which bind other factions. With Righteous Fury you can Invade in Cold War, but opponents cannot retaliate without full War; Species Stability lets you sidestep a weak economy, but could do so in a more interesting way, such as preventing you from going into negative Dust and Food, akin to the ability of the contest Hero from Endless Legend; Admit and Improve brings back Fast Learner and the ascendany of Heroes as an alternative route for development, which was a major theme of the Cultists, Drakken, and Morgawr, the latter two of which used Fast Learner. However, Admit and Improve could be improved by changing the Hero half of the law to be a flat per turn bonus, discouraging toggling and providing a very reliable source of XP; Saints and Sinners obviously lets you sidestep Approval issues, providing yet another area to not have to focus on, bringing to mind the Cultists, who just didn't worry about Approval because they had only one city; and finally, Peace and Prayer let's you turn a very tall, Influence pumping home world into another method of expansion that bypasses warfare, a mechanic which is very similar to Village Conversion from the Cultists, as well as the mechanics of combining high Vision with the Village Dissent and Catspaw abilities of the Morgawr.

Everything about the Religious Party is focused on letting you take your Influence and use it to ignore your weaknesses, ignore borders, ignore the rules of everything. Where others invest resources in more System Improvements, you invest in Governor Skills and Laws; advanced Modules are countered by high Levels and Admiral Skills; War is bypassed by Conversion, or you skip straight to Invasion. Other parties do things better; you just ignore the downsides of not doing those things at all, and do so by investing in Influence and Heroes.

"

• Remove the overcolonization bonuses from Hyper-PAKs and Cultural Invernetics.
• Rename  „Colonial Rights“ to „Colonial Administration“, increase it’s cost to  10 Hyperium and 10 Titanium and add (not replace): increases the  colonization threshold by 0.5 if the system improvement level is 3 or  higher.
• Keep Autonomous Administration but half the influence cost and the colonization threshold. In total both upgrades would yield the +1 on colonization threshold. Eventually add +10 adamantium / +10 anti-matter as cost to push strategic ressource mining.
• Add  an influence upkeep to the empire per system colonized above the  starting colonization limit. This influence upkeep per system should  increase with the number of systems colonized. Whether a linear increase  or an exponantial increase is suitable is subject to balance.
• Consider federations either by giving higher colonization thresholds or lower influence penalties.
  

"

I dislike most of this, but that's also because I greatly dislike the current Autonomous Administration solution as being yet-another bit of complexity to stack on an existing mechanic, and that it already plays off a mechanic that requires investing in Economy and Trade to Stage 5, System Development. This is part of the problem of putting both Strategic Resources and System Development so far into that quadrant; all other mechanics which key off of those require that you invest there first. You're not allowed to run an Empire that focuses on one thing, while putting token effort into being Economic; you must first play an Economic empire, and then specialize slightly in you're preferred direction. I don't want to see more and more simple, elegant Empire Improvements replaced by complex, multi-stage System Improvements like this that rely on so many other resources and mechanics that are locked deep within completely different quadrants of the Tech Wheel. This is already a problem with the game and its design as-is, and we should be looking to consolidate and organize Improvements and other systems instead of further complicating them with additional steps, which only serves to increase the games skill floor.

I understand the point of lowering the overcolonization cap due to the ability to increase it with structures, but even so, I feel that the current cap is too restricting on larger maps. here's my reasoning:

currently, on the largest map size, the over colonization cap is 8. the first tech that raises it increases that to 10. while 10 systems sounds like it'd be "good enough" for setting up shop for the massive tech costs of gaining the ability to actually raise the cap further, in my experience, it really isn't. due to the approval changes, it's a very, very bad idea to go over the cap, either, as until you get terraforming (another large tech cost), you have to make due with lower tier planets. I play as a more-science-crazy version of the sophons (I've turned custom faction trait caps off), with the 3rd tier of science boost, +2 movement, and +2 probes. I also set the universe to new to prevent the early-game spam of the AI, give the player a chance to get those "4 systems in the same constellation/8 planets colonized in empire" without having to devote literally everything to colony ships and the like. my first settler will either wait for a 4-5 planet system to settle, or, if a few turns have passed, make due with the closest available system to ensure I don't end up too far behind the AI. then, after the initial constructions and another scout, I pop out 3 more settler ships, regardless of whether or not I've found any decent systems available at the time. typically by the time they're all out, I'll find the systems anyway. I put emphasis on unique planets and systems with 5 planets in them to make the most of the 8 system limit, and I try to colonize the academy if possible. so there's 5-6/8 early systems. however, there's also the matter of the severely intense minor faction competition. thinkers and tinkers I is a must for me since I rush a probe spam for this exact reason, and relic peddler's also very nice if it's available. if I can find the analytical engine, my day's made. (aside: I don't believe thinkers and tinkers I is really OP, though. playing normally, the bonus is nice and sizable late-game, but nothing too powerful. it only gets powerful if you put heavy focus on grabbing all the curiosities before the AI. also, doing this means going science-heavy, and so your dust and industry hurt more for it. this can keep you from falling behind). so there's 2 more systems that I fight the AI over getting. I'm already at my cap. now I find the anomaly quest for founding on a system to on the planet marked off to get a unique building unlocked. now I'm at 9, although still within the 10 cap after researching the first cap limit tech. but, as you can see, I'm now severely stuck for growth. if there's any other faction I want to fight for, I'm severely limited to who I can get.

the problem isn't that I'm being forced to make choices, that's fine. the problem is that I'm being forced to make very-long-term choices early on. I'm going science-heavy, but even then, the necessary building is locked in the 4th tier of the left branch. meanwhile, it's dependant on finishing 3 techs in the 4th tier on the right branch to unlock the 4th level of development. and if you don't want to just stick with tier 1 resources, you also need to research a tech in the 4th tier of the bottom branch to be able to discover and gather rare resources. the actual cost of the structure itself is fair, and the fact that it can only be built at a tier 4 colony is also fair. but I'm being strangled for room in the 2nd tech ring, and the 2 system expansion in the 3rd tier doesn't help - if anything, it's not enough by the time you reach it, and so you're actually worse off in the third tier than you were in the 2nd.

it's not like I'm asking to colonize 20 systems in my galaxy that's so large it bottlenecks my system right out of the gate. I actually love the idea of being able to expand further late-game after fully developing your systems. it's just that 8/10 before you reach late-game on such a huge map is very constricting, and you need to reach late-game on 3 different research branches to loosen the noose at all.

it's also important to note that if you want to reach level 4 colony, unless you rely on 3 common resources in your local area of the galaxy and reuse them for each level, even if you're using only common resources for your upgrades, you need to colonize systems far away from your capital to gain access to these resources. you have to make bases that otherwise aren't very good or easily defendable just so you can get a hold of these resources. otherwise, your only choice is to focus on money instead of science (which makes reaching tier 4 of 3 tech branches that much harder) and buy them off the market for whatever the buying price is. I'm actually surprised at how eden incense has risen in price to be more expensive than all of the uncommon resources. likely because the lumeris seem to be upgrading every system with it since they're spamming influence. I've had to draw from the market at oppressive prices even though I'm the prime supplier of the stuff (it's local to my area, and I own a mine) just to get my systems to tier 2. and that's actually pretty nice! it's interesting how sometimes I'm forced to draw from the market even though I'm the primary supplier due to how much it's needed at the time and how much my main competitor over minor factions is hoarding it and raising the prices. great RP element right there. it made that part of the game interesting.

but I don't want to do that for all 6 resources if I happen to be stuck with military or approval rare resources with all the FIDS rare resources everywhere else (or, worse, everywhere around my systems but not on the systems I own). as it is, I can't even go the military route and take over systems that have resources I need, because I'm at or close to my cap limit.

raising the initial cap limit, raising the first bar raiser, or readding the 2nd bar raiser would make it easier to deal with. having 13 or 14 systems be my hard cap until I reach late game is enough room to breath in, but 10 systems is too little.

/overcolonizationrant

EDIT: ok wow I'm stupid. or I was just very tired. probably both, and maybe blind too. I didn't notice that the same tech that unlocks the +1 cap building also gives 4 more OC space. whoops. this actually gives quite a bit of breathing room back. I would've liked a bit more earlier, but it's fine. as it is, you can get 14 with 1 tier 4 tech, so my request for 13/14 systems has actually already been fulfilled lol

Food Pool

it sounds nice, but I'm personally not a fan of it. first of all, most food improvements can be made anywhere, and, really, should be made everywhere. more food means more pops means more FIDS(I sometimes). so you almost never need a food pool unless you didn't build any food buildings in a system and somehow managed to get 10 pops in there (most likely through migration) or you're colonizing several systems and drawing food from this one system. which bring me to my next point: food transference already exists in the form of outpost growth. why would the food pool be automatic while outpost growth requires a slow moving civie ship to deliver the goods? also, if you're starving a system by doing this, it's your fault for not managing your supplies properly. it can even be an abuse as your other systems give their excess food to the now-starving system to keep it from starving. it's an abuse because you could form 4 colonies and have them receive goods from a single nearby system instead of what you're normally supposed to do, which is deciding which one needs food faster, and having the other ones receive supplies from systems further away. you can temporarily starve one system, or draw resources from further away at the cost of slower outpost growth. but here, starvation's no longer an issue (unless you colonize too many outposts, which brings a new problem - now all of your systems are starving. though, again, if you let it get to this, it's your fault) and you can focus on speed by always drawing from the closest system, even if that closest system's on the other side of the galaxy from the rest of the empire. because food will be teleported in from the empire to the far-away system so it can be shipped to the new outpost in 1-2 turns instead of the normal/risky 8-10 turns. but obviously, you can't have food being shipped with civies because that'd be a CPU/GPU nightmare. no one's toasters could run that.

as for food being useful late-game... yea, it still is. aside from the obvious "grow a pop here, ship it out via spaceport to a colony with few pops, grow another pop in a few turns", there's also the bio-fuel factory. late-game, sure, but my best late-game factories are actually the systems that produce tons and tons of food. because 1k food turns into 1k production. so on top of keeping your colony's pops maxed out while still donating food to the new outpost, you can still potentially double your industrial output with the bio-fuel refinery. factory. whatever it is. I'm tired and should've slept 4 hours ago. *ahem*

anyway, it's a nice idea, but I don't think it'd work well in ES2.

Luxury Maintenance

I actually like this concept. in fact, I feel luxury resources don't really feel like luxury resources. they feel like strategic resources. but, less gun-friendly strategic resources. luxury resources are consumed by the masses to enhance their quality of life. so creating something that consumed luxury resources via maintenance is a good idea.

that said, I think that should be kept separate from city development level. There's a few reasons for this: 1. you can't delete plans, so the resource you picked is the one you have to develop in all of your systems. 2. city development level is an important core concept, something many other features rely off of. including, now, the overcolonization cap. I already ranted about that. making it more complex than it already is will ensure players never get more than 12 systems, and that AI can't keep up properly (though from what I've seen, AI don't seem to care about colonization cap anyway, so they probably won't be hindered by this, but in normal cases, they wouldn't be able to compete). 3. what happens if you reach level 4, but don't have the resources for a lvl 3? does your system temporarily demote to a level 2? do they stay lvl 4 but lose their benefits? if so, now you've got a different exploit (buying enough of a resource to get a system to lvl 4, but not bother with maintenance so as to add to the colonization cap. lvl 1 system with lvl 4 benefits)

instead, I think a structure that uses the resource as maintenance is a better idea. you can sell the structure if you can't afford to keep it anymore, you can impliment different bonuses, no messy issues from above, etc. I spoke in more detail over the idea over here, so you can check it out if you want.

my post is too long. it's 8 AM. I need to sleep. sorry for the wall of text lol

ridesdragons wrote:

I understand the point of lowering the overcolonization cap due to the ability to increase it with structures, but even so, I feel that the current cap is too restricting on larger maps. here's my reasoning:

(...)

it's not like I'm asking to colonize 20 systems in my galaxy that's so large it bottlenecks my system right out of the gate. I actually love the idea of being able to expand further late-game after fully developing your systems. it's just that 8/10 before you reach late-game on such a huge map is very constricting, and you need to reach late-game on 3 different research branches to loosen the noose at all.

(...)

as for food being useful late-game... yea, it still is. aside from the obvious "grow a pop here, ship it out via spaceport to a colony with few pops, grow another pop in a few turns", there's also the bio-fuel factory. late-game, sure, but my best late-game factories are actually the systems that produce tons and tons of food. because 1k food turns into 1k production. so on top of keeping your colony's pops maxed out while still donating food to the new outpost, you can still potentially double your industrial output with the bio-fuel refinery. factory. whatever it is. I'm tired and should've slept 4 hours ago. *ahem*

anyway, it's a nice idea, but I don't think it'd work well in ES2.

Luxury Maintenance
(...)

that said, I think that should be kept separate from city development level. There's a few reasons for this: 1. you can't delete plans, so the resource you picked is the one you have to develop in all of your systems. 2. city development level is an important core concept, something many other features rely off of. including, now, the overcolonization cap. I already ranted about that. making it more complex than it already is will ensure players never get more than 12 systems, and that AI can't keep up properly (though from what I've seen, AI don't seem to care about colonization cap anyway, so they probably won't be hindered by this, but in normal cases, they wouldn't be able to compete). 3. what happens if you reach level 4, but don't have the resources for a lvl 3? does your system temporarily demote to a level 2? do they stay lvl 4 but lose their benefits? if so, now you've got a different exploit (buying enough of a resource to get a system to lvl 4, but not bother with maintenance so as to add to the colonization cap. lvl 1 system with lvl 4 benefits)
(...)

The problem of Overcolonization, all you just listed, is above all that we have a bunch of important, basic mechanics locked very deep within multiple quadrants, like you said. Everything, EVERYTHING, is reliant on Economy and Trade, which contains most of the games big scientific bottlenecks in Strategic Resources, Trade Routes, and Development Levels. The fact that two of these require diving all the way into End Game technologies is insane, because the buildings and modules that use them are ALSO all end game, and the game is not designed for you to go all the way into every quadrant unless you're doing a Science victory. Everything we absolutely positively need to use everything should be Stage Unlocks, unlocked by Stage 4, so we only need to complete techs in that quadrant up to Stage 3. See here.

To the Food pool problem, there is already plenty of mechanical complexity in Population manipulation, and I like that complexity, except that we don't use most of it due to issues with obtaining the right Luxuries. What I hate is that if Foods only usefulness is that it props up other more useful resources through conversion, it's not a useful resource, it's a superfluous one. You'd might as well replace all instances of Food with more Industry and Manpower, and change the Growth system to just give you a pop every X turns based on game speed. Foods only logical purpose is to create a mechanical division between people who grow their Population upwards, and people who grow their Empire outwards, but right now most of its usefulness goes to how quickly you expand even further outwards, only contributing to the issue of Wide being the only gameplay style in ES2.

I don't mind if the Food pool doesn't work, but Food is a broken and superfluous mechanic as long as it doesn't fulfill its central purpose, which is Growth.

For Luxury Maintenance, I already went over what happens here. To summarize, if your Empire goes into a shortage because your Luxury upkeep exceeds Luxury stocks, affected Systems become increasingly unhappy for a few turns, and then break the original Luxury Recipe at the peak of the Approval malus, to reflect the idea that your people have eventually overcome their coffee withdrawal and gotten over it, requiring you to refill the Recipe and rebuild those System Development Projects.

However, while Luxury Maintenance is immediately relevant to the thread because it affects the idea to raise the Colonization threshold with System Development levels, Food and potential ways to improve its usefulness are not. I've turned it into another thread, here.