Derp, looks like I accidentally didn't have the mod active for 4 of those save games dealing with starting systems. The Sophon save does have mod active however.

Regardless the issue with Chaotic starting systems persists whether the mod is active or not. Here's few demonstrating saves with the mod active

Hissho start mod active.sav

Bad Hissho start mod active.sav

A weird note on inflation: when you are in a position to pay for all your upkeep via selling resources, and you don't have nor want to use dust to do anything (e.g. buy resources or upgrades, or have a large fleet upkeep) - you really don't care about inflation. For instance, I've not made trading companies nor any Dust Improvement beyond Xenotourism in this Unfallen game, but I'm still +500 per turn dust and pretty uninterested in reducing inflation: it might reduce costs of doing things with dust, but given my main income is from selling resources, it would reduce my incoming funds too.

I don't know if that's good or bad, but it's something.

Your at the tip of a iceberg on the question of balance right there Dragar.  All FIDS are not equal, and the eventual goal hopefully is to make them all as important as the other.  

Example, in my sophon game, I play wide fast, spam the galaxy, the first tech I research are the two resources T and H then Markets.  I know full well going into this that I cannot afford to spam the galaxy like I'm going to, hence markets.

There have been many a game where I am selling everything to keep afloat, (granted they have the worst economy in the world and I'm playing against people so I have to push the edge so to speak)

I wonder if some of the dust upgrades deserve a better look, I still believe that trade routes even with the G2G are underpowered.  I can't offset my empires running deficiet with trade routes, but in theory, that is something that I should be able to do.

I know you are in a situation of too much dust not enough to do with it, but you were probably leading the inflation curve as well.  

Maybe better dust to science conversion?  Not really sure where I was going with this, just reminded me of a counter point and a reliance on inflation to keep resource costs high (as other empires were using everything I was selling)  

I guess my point was buff trade routes?  I'm sure yours are still only doing >1-2% of your empires science and dust production? lol  Maybe that isn't even a answer.  In the mod the lumeris play much better, I'm using buyout to purchase my weapons of war instead of building them which no other race I can do (minus church going cravers riding on conveyer belt to galactic conquest).

Dragar wrote:

Dear Devs,

Here are some more numbers. I started the worst case scenario game - a bunch of Lumeris, vs one plucky Vaulters (me!). Inflation is going to go through the roof, and I'm terrible at making dust. Whatever will I do? I should be worried about all this inflation, right?

(snip)

Ouch! Were it not for some truce payments, maybe I'd be in trouble, running at almost -300 dust per turn!

But wait.

I'm making 4 Titanium per turn (200 dust), 8 Hyperium (492 dust), and 200 dust per turn from luxuries.

I haven't built a single dust building. But I'm swimming in dust (effectively +500 per turn), even running a pseudo-deficit, because I can just sell these resources. And inflation will increase their value - but it won't affect my system upkeep. I will get even more dust income every turn thanks to inflation. 

Add to this, I got off to a rocky start - I've got very few systems, multiple wars, pirates blocking expansion.  I haven't even built mines or unlocked the next tiers of resources yet. More inflation will just make me richer and richer as this game goes on, and I unlock more inflation-linked resources to sell.

Maybe a way to fix this is to make inflation decrease the more resources are in the market place. This would add a negative feedback loop rather than the postive one that currently exist and also incentivize players to sell resources via diplomacy (which in turn makes infulence more valuable).

 As someone who used to play a lot of civ 5(before I found EL) I find it weird that Diplomacy with the AI is entirely optional even on the hardest difficulties. You don't need to sell resources to them, science agreements are really bad, and trade agreements are kinda pointless because of inflation. If the marketplace was less of a nesscessity then Diplomacy with the AI (or other players) becomes way more important than it is now.

The main issue with resources on the market is that they currently have their minimum value set to be 40% of their base value. If it was set to something not (what I see as) ridiculously high then I expect the issue will be greatly lessened if not resolved entirely. I would suggest it being trialed at 5% of base value.

Hi,

Thanks for the report. It is planned to do a pass on the market globally in the future, but not for this balance mod.

Heya, are the -50% dmg on beam / lasers already in the game, or they will be applied in an upcoming patch? Because cutting the basic beam from 9 to 4 dmg really makes it totally uninteresting as an option, same with lasers. Kinetics already offer more punch than lasers.

Already in the game.

Latest mod patch notes are here.

As the mod gets tweaked and works its way into the game maybe some of the lumeris things should be traits, like the influence reducer built into planet brokers.  Because as is there is no way to build a custom faction that even closely resembles lumeris as there point value comes in at 125! (of 100 or 95 for some)  Just sort of a side note.

I'm sure you guys are on it.  Cheers

Ah cool, was scared they will further half the damage of energy weapons which would create a mess :D

Speaking of which, could you guys please make the starting deposits of Titanium and Hyperium decent (1 instead of .5) for Riftborn, they have no way to colonize fast mediteranean / terran / atol etc where those resources are usually found and with the change to rifts you need 20 titanium to make your first one which translates to ~turn 60+ on endless speed. They are not great explorers either so you can't just spam curiosities and hope to get lucky with a titanium deposit either (plus they need the early probes to scout for good industry planets they can colonize).

And lastly please could we balance the Hunter for Riftborn by adding a module slot? I get it that they are glass cannons with poor defenses (even upgraded) but at least give me a 2nd module slot (simple one, not def/utility or attack/utility, so they end up upgraded with 2 utility slots).

Much appreciated!

Anelyn wrote:

Ah cool, was scared they will further half the damage of energy weapons which would create a mess :D

Speaking of which, could you guys please make the starting deposits of Titanium and Hyperium decent (1 instead of .5) for Riftborn, they have no way to colonize fast mediteranean / terran / atol etc where those resources are usually found and with the change to rifts you need 20 titanium to make your first one which translates to ~turn 60+ on endless speed. They are not great explorers either so you can't just spam curiosities and hope to get lucky with a titanium deposit either (plus they need the early probes to scout for good industry planets they can colonize).

And lastly please could we balance the Hunter for Riftborn by adding a module slot? I get it that they are glass cannons with poor defenses (even upgraded) but at least give me a 2nd module slot (simple one, not def/utility or attack/utility, so they end up upgraded with 2 utility slots).

Much appreciated!

Riftborn can colonize those planet types using their secondary populations without any real issue. Other than needing to build the spaceport to transfer a population after colonizing.

Autochthon wrote:

Anelyn wrote:

Ah cool, was scared they will further half the damage of energy weapons which would create a mess :D

Speaking of which, could you guys please make the starting deposits of Titanium and Hyperium decent (1 instead of .5) for Riftborn, they have no way to colonize fast mediteranean / terran / atol etc where those resources are usually found and with the change to rifts you need 20 titanium to make your first one which translates to ~turn 60+ on endless speed. They are not great explorers either so you can't just spam curiosities and hope to get lucky with a titanium deposit either (plus they need the early probes to scout for good industry planets they can colonize).

And lastly please could we balance the Hunter for Riftborn by adding a module slot? I get it that they are glass cannons with poor defenses (even upgraded) but at least give me a 2nd module slot (simple one, not def/utility or attack/utility, so they end up upgraded with 2 utility slots).

Much appreciated!

Riftborn can colonize those planet types using their secondary populations without any real issue. Other than needing to build the spaceport to transfer a population after colonizing.

I think you misunderstood me. Yes, if they research to be able to colonize terran / boreal / jungle etc, which is T2 research and not in your early game research priority - because there are other things that are more important to start developing your empire.

It's not a population problem, but inaccesibility in early to mid game to that type of planet. To build a spaceport you need 4 techs in economics & trade tree PLUS at least 25 luxury resources - which is also a problem in early game for Riftborn because T1 luxury resources usually spawn on inhospitable planets for Riftborn.

I would like to see this linked idea in G2G balance mod included for to test it, as long as I think it would be an improvement related to Obliterator gameplay (especially in multiplayer games): Nerving Obliterator Shots

Basically I was thinking about having a simple fix (especially from dev side of view) for community dealing with double Obliterator shots and same time resulting in new tactics and strategies coming along. Would be happy to get some (up-) votes and/or any kind of feedback for this idea.

Best greets Groo

Had a go with the Vodyani today, I liked the way they are in the mod, well done. BUT (all on normal settings, 6 players) all my AI opponents dropped out of the game one after the other by turn 120. Is that due to the economy balance tryouts? Seemed like they all went bankrupt perhaps.

We do suspect that their sudden disappearance may be related to bankruptcy and the bailiff. However, this has been very difficult to confirm, as this bug often disappears on reloading. I believe the AI reevaluates its situation after you load the game, so it may decide to sell fleets to fix its situation.