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Operation: Tech Tree Rearrangement

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7 years ago
Dec 3, 2017, 10:51:05 AM

I deleted my original rant and copypasted the work from another thread here. Figured that it's nice to have the main work right in the OP. More clarity in editing and better visibility.


Additional analysis at https://www.games2gether.com/endless-space-2/forums/66-game-design/threads/28389-switched-tech-names-descriptions?page=1 Big thumbs up to Yertyl and everybody else who've participated in spotting the wonky techs!


What's this about? Some techs are messed up, check the other thread for details. This is an attempt to re-arrange the techs so the descriptions fit each other.


So here we go. It's time to

 


Here's the tech tree with fancy dots for reference.


The numbers and letters in the chart below work as seen here.

For each quarter, I'm using a defining letter. [M]ilitary, Economy and [T]rade, [S]cience and Exploration and [E]mpire Development. As an example, if Chain Gang Program should go to Ubiquitous Surveillance it'd look like this:


M1ab: M1b -> M2, description fits better


Aka:

[Tech with it's unlocks in question]: [Tech part to move] -> [end location in the tree], [short reasoning / notes]


Maybe devs agree, maybe not. But we can try to put things into order. If a list like this would be of any help, it might save a few work hours when they could just copypaste the directions we come up with.


And yeah, I'm aware the military tree is currently being reworked for the coming patch. But one has to deal with what one has available. And I know this is just the UE tree. There's different techs for other factions but this'll work as a good starting point. And I know moving things directly as listed here will mess up technical game balance big time. This is meant just to align the tech descriptions logically. Balance is a topic of it's own.


United Empire

Military:

M1ab: M1b -> M2, fitting description

M2ab: M2a -> M5, fitting description

M3abc: M3 -> M4, flipped description

M4abc: M4 -> M3, flipped description

M5abc: M5a -> M6, (slightly better) fitting description

M6abc: M6a -> M5 fitting description / M6b -> somewhere? fits badly here

M7ab: Fine? Lacks def per description

M8abcd: Fine? Lacks fleet comm per description

M9abc: M9+M12 need to flip image (compare to M17)

M10abc: M10 needs unique image, uses same as M23

M11ab: Fine?

M12ab: M12+9 need to flip image (compare to M17)

M13abcd: Fine?

M14abcd: M14 uses Quadrinix-based img, see M26/M29

M15ab: Fine? Could use invasion-based stuff like manpower modules, maybe squadrons

M16abc: M16c -> M15 (more) fitting description / M16a might need work?

M17ab: Fine? M17a feels hamfisted

M18ab: M18 uses Quadrinix-based img, see M26/M29 / M18a feels hamfisted

M19ab: Fine? Fluff not supporting unlocks though

M20ab: Fine? Personal issues with AGT unlocking energy weapons

M21ab: Fine?

M22ab: Fine?

M23abc: Fine?

M24ab: M24a -> M23 fitting description / M24b -> M27 fitting description

M25ab: M25 has image of Adamantian

M26ab: Fine?

M27a: Fine?

M28ab: Fine? M28 mentiones defense in fluff

M29ab: Fine?


Trade:

T1ab: T1 img -> E1 & E1 img -> E2 & E2 img -> T1 (rotate all 3 tech images counterclockwise once) / T1b -> S2, consistent with T2 image+resource unlock

T2ab: Fine? T2a -> M6?

T3ab: Fine? T3a could be moved?

T4ab: Fine? T4a -> T3?

T5ab: Fine?

T6ab: T6a -> somewhere? Lottery doesn't fit with tech

T7abc: T7 -> T8, description would make more sense with this flip mainly for T7

T8abc: T8 -> T7, as above

T9ab: Fine?

T10abc: Fine?

T11abc: T11b -> with Autonomous Materials (S11 originally) dem tremors

T12ab: Fine? T12b could be moved?

T13ab: T13b -> somewhere? Feels out of place

T14ab: T14b -> somewhere? Feels out of place

T15ab: Fine? T15b refers to S11b wormholes

T16ab: Fine?

T17ab: Fine?

T18ab: Fine?

T19ab: Fine?

T20ab: Fine?

T21ab: Fine?

T22a: Fine?

T23a: Fine?

T24a: Fine?

T25ab: Fine?

T26ab: Fine? T26a could be moved?

T27ab: Fine?


Science:

S1ab: S1b -> S4, fitting description

S2ab: Fine? S2a a bit odd unlock

S3abc: Fine? S3a & S3c odd unlocks

S4abc: S4b -> S8, fitting description / S4a odd unlock

S5abc: S5b could be moved

S6abc: S6b -> S12 (though arid/desert in same tech might be problematic)

S7abc: Fine?

S8ab: S8b -> S18 or T16 more fitting

S9abc: S9 -> S15, fitting description

S10ab: Fine?

S11abc: S11 -> S9, fitting description / S11a -> S13, fitting description / S11b -> S14, fitting description / S11c -> S1, fitting description

S12abc: Fine? S12c odd unlock

S13a: Funky, religious political impact...

S14ab: S14 -> somewhere? E7 takes this spot

S15ab: S15 -> somewhere? S9 takes this spot

S16ab: Fine?

S17ab: Fine? Odd unlocks

S18ab: Fine? Could use habitation tech along with S18a

S19a: S19 -> E16, flipped description

S20a: S20a -> M28, fits description (or rework repair -> dodge), possibly S20a -> E14

S21a: Fine?

S22ab: Fine? S22b -> S17 maybe

S23a: I really don't know.


Empire:

E1ab: E1 img -> E2 & E2 img -> T1 & T1 img -> E1 (rotate all 3 tech images counterclockwise once)

E2ab: E2 img -> T1 & T1 img -> E1 & E1 img -> E2 (rotate all 3 tech images counterclockwise once) / E2b -> S1, fitting description

E3ab: Fine? Personal issue with placement but that's another topic (shameless plug for E3ab -> trade tree)

E4ab: Fine? Seems to lack colony tech per description

E5ab: Fine?

E6ab: E6b -> S5, fitting description

E7ab: E7+E9 need to flip image first / E7 -> S14, fitting description

E8ab: E8 -> E10, flipped description

E9ab: E9+E7 need to flip image

E10ab: E10 -> E8, flipped description

E11abc: Fine?

E12ab: E12 needs unique image, uses same as T1

E13abc: E13b -> somewhere? Not fitting E13 very well

E14a: Fine?

E15a: Fine? Very fine. For Zelevas!

E16abc: E16 -> S19, flipped description / E16+S15 share same img

E17a: Fine?

E18a: Fine?

E19ab: Fine?

E20abc: Fine?

E21ab: E21b is missing fluff, has identical description to the actual effect

E22a: Fine?

E23ab: E23 -> E25, flipped description

E24ab: Fine? Could be linked somehow with T10

E25ab: E25 -> E23, flipped description

E26a: Fine?

E27ab: Fine?


There's still a few minor things that bother me. Like PPP in S1a, but I can't figure out where to put it. It's strange to unlock PPP from Xenobiology. Oh well. Feedback, criticism, corrections etc all welcome.

Updated 7 years ago.
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7 years ago
Dec 3, 2017, 6:27:42 PM

I was thinking about this some more.


Sometimes the way we apply our discoveries is not so cut-and-dry. For example, in the real world that we live in, a lot of the technologies we use in everyday, peaceful life can trace their origins to space exploration programs or the military.


If I were going to describe the perks that the modern-day internet (a technology) provides for our society, for example, I could easily assign it some happiness or approval (Netflix, Spotify, or Amplitude could be buildable options for our planet). It's origins, however, are definitely more focused on the military (command points) and the hard sciences (research).


I think that the descriptions throughout the Amplitude games add a lot of depth and an ephemeral beauty/character to the game.


It's the old rule of the artist hinting at something and letting your mind fill in all the little details (far better than the artist could ever illustrate them).


If you can think of it that way, maybe it will help you to enjoy the descriptions a lot more.


If you really hate them, I think that's still helpful feedback.

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7 years ago
Dec 3, 2017, 9:35:38 PM
lilyophelia wrote:


Sometimes the way we apply our discoveries is not so cut-and-dry. For example, in the real world that we live in, a lot of the technologies we use in everyday, peaceful life can trace their origins to space exploration programs or the military.

Yes you are right. Many times technology will open up unseen opportunities and new ways to do things. On several fluff pieces in the tech tree this has also been brought up and no problem there. Most tech is okay but then there's some that really make no sense to me.


Like N-way Fusion and Chain Gang Program. I can get behind the bunker thing somehow but even stretching my imagination CGP just doesn't fit the bill there. There's Ubiquitous Surveillance just next to N-way Fusion and that would be perfect for CGP. Just check the texts. Chain gang: "Watching state is the empowered state, citizens who get caught have a chance to redeem themselves" And Ubi Surveillance "..From nanocameras to eavesdropping flies..."


I understand that for balance reasons the techs kind of have to be where they are but the inconsistencies stay. Hyperium magnetics with titanium portrayed. Deep habitats without actual habitats, genetics dealing with space-time alteration and so on.


I don't hate the tree, or the fluff. Quite the contrary, it's fun and enjoyable to read. I just got a bit flabbergasted when I was skimming through the different techs trying to make sense of it all. Like, Efficient Shielding... It talks about making hulls more lightweight and durable. I could understand if it'd be in economy & trade, you know, for breakthrough in logistics. Possibly even in exploration, against hazards of the space! But empire tree? I have a hard time making the connection.


What I'm trying to say is that even if some techs and their applications could be worked out, there are some that are quite hard to connect. Sure it's scifi and anything goes, but it'd be nice if the fluff would explain in some sensible way how you get from discovery A to tool/application B. At least fix the images!


Just trying to give feedback. Game is great, I just want to see it get even greater!

Updated 7 years ago.
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7 years ago
Dec 4, 2017, 12:33:41 PM

Oh, well that looks like a pretty good explanation. So I guess you are completely correct, Starbound!


With that said, you could still use your imagination a little bit and maybe it wouldn't bother you as much. <3

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7 years ago
Dec 4, 2017, 1:32:51 PM
YertyL wrote:

You may be interested in this thread: https://www.games2gether.com/endless-space-2/forums/66-game-design/threads/28389-switched-tech-names-descriptions?page=1

Also, and more importantly: How did you get the images?

Oh there is already a thread about the topic. Sorry, my bad. I hopped over but edited this OP while at it. Not sure which one is better to use in the long run.


And I got the pictures the hard way. Open up game -> print screen -> alt tab to paint -> control + V -> cut image -> new image -> control + V -> save -> go foam on forums. If you look closely, they're not perfect cuts, especially at the bottom you can spot slightly different color bars due to hasty image editing.

Updated 7 years ago.
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7 years ago
Dec 8, 2017, 7:40:45 PM

I went through the races to check out the faction-based unique techs to see if there's anything off. This addon mostly examines fitting flavor fluff, images etc.


Sophons

Military:

No unique techs

Trade:

Xenolinguistics: Fine? No unique picture on mega indy however

Science:

Eukaryotic Sap: Fine?

Graviton Research: No Sophon-based fluff on Graviton-shielded Laboratories though it gives extra science compared to other factions

Sophonic Noosphere: Fine?

Empire:

Botanical Scanning: Fine?

All hull techs: Fine? Basic descriptions, unique hulls (probably as intended)


Cravers

Military:

Chitinous Alloys: Fine? Room for more unlocks per fluff description however

Improved Fleet Management: Fine? Could use more fitting unlocks per fluff

Deniable Operations: Fine?

Hyperfield Generators: Fine? Only bonus is better Hyper Gear, intended?

Quantum Communications: Fine?

Trade:

No unique techs

Science:

No unique techs

Empire:

Xeno Anthropology: Descriptions are basic, no Craver fluff. Government unlock removed so possibly working as intended?

Insectoid Translation: Fine?

All hull techs: Fine? Basic descriptions, unique hulls (probably as intended)


Lumeris

Military:

No unique techs

Trade:

Impactless Sites: Fine? No unique picture on Workers' (is that a in-game typo btw?) Campus however

Xeno NLP: Fine?

Science:

No unique techs

Empire:

Untraceable Markets: Fine?

Perfect Negotiations: Fine? Only bonus -10% diplo costs, working as intended?

Chlorophyll Chemistry: Fine?

All hull techs: Fine? Basic descriptions, unique hulls (probably as intended)


Vodyani

[NOTE] Vodyani have 2 affinity tech markings. They use both "Ship Bound" & "Vodyani" in the tree. Flavor text talks about Vodyani a lot of times on Ship Bound texts so maybe they should be merged? If I create a Ship Bound race with Riftborn visuals the tech fluff will look really strange. Anyway, I Listed them as SB/V on techs for clarity.

Military:

N-Way Fusion (SB): Fine?

Unstable Isotope Machining (V): Fine? Fluff focuses only on weaponry however

Structured Antimatter (V): Fine?

Trade:

Astrofinance (SB): Fine?

Impactless Sites (SB): Fine?

Neural Robotics (SB): Fine?

Extreme Atmospherics (SB): Fine?

Chameleon Spaces (SB): Fine?

Quantized Economics (SB): Fine?

Crust Engineering (SB): Fine?

P.O.W.E.R. Armor (SB): Fine?

Autonomous Mining (SB): Fine?

Science:

Pew-Scale Accelerators (SB): Wrong tech image, using Wave Function Control one.

Autonomous Materials (SB): Fine?

Evaporation Inhibitors (SB): Fine?

Adaptive Colonies (SB): Fine?

Applied Casimir Effect (SB): Fine?

N-Dimensional Topologies (V): Fine? Shared tech image as listed in OP however

Tendrils of the Church (SB): Fine?

Climate Engineering (SB): Fine?

Dimensional Folding (SB): Fine?

Ontological Rev-Eng (SB): Fine?

Radioactive Essence (SB): Fine?

Pious Timekeeping (SB): Fine?

Empire:

Xenology (SB): Fine?

Veil of the Essence (V): Fine?

Chlorophyll Chemistry (-): Missing affinity mark, fluff talks about Vodyani however.

Nano Aquaculture (SB): Fine? Fluff describes quite different stuff from unlock however

Dust-9 Production (V): Fine?

All hull techs (V): Fine? Basic descriptions, unique hulls (probably as intended)


United Empire

Military:

Improved Fleet Management: Fine? (I must note OpEx gear power vs Hyper Gear... Ok it's unique tech but tier 3 vs tier 5 & still weaker)

Adamantian Alloys: Fine?

Trade:

No unique techs

Science:

No unique techs

Empire:

Xeno Anthropology: No Empire fluff on tech, unique unlock is fine

HyperPACs: Fine?

Emperor's Shadow: Fine?

All hull techs: Fine? Basic descriptions, unique hulls (probably as intended)


Horatio

[NOTE] Horatio uses dual affinity as well. Gene Hunter and Horatio, they're listed as GH/H. Like Vodyani, GH techs talks about Horatio so they're naturally linked.

Military:

No unique techs

Trade:

Atmospheric Filtration (GH): No unique fluff on tech & no unique picture on Glorification of the Gorgeous however

Neural Robotics (H): No unique unlocks, only fluffed up tech

Maximized Exploitation (GH): Nothing unique, no unlocks, no fluff

Science:

Eukaryotic Sap (H): Fine?

Compact Warp Methods (H): Fine?

Empire:

Off-World Agribusiness (H): Fine?

Botanical Scanning (H): Fine?

Genetic Recording (H): Fine?

All hull techs (H): Fine? Basic descriptions, unique hulls (probably as intended)


Riftborn

[NOTE] Another dual affinity race. Continuum Sculptor & Riftborn. Listed as CS/RB.

Military:

Subatomic Disruption (RB): Fluffed but no change in unlocks

Trade:

Multi-Thread Management (RB): Fine? No unique picture for Cube of the Viceroy however (bonus 25 per lv & 5 per orig pop)

Atmospheric Filtration (CS): Fine?

Maximized Exploitation (CS): Fine?

P.O.W.E.R. Armor (RB): Fine?

Science:

Xenobiology (CS): Fine?

Rare Earth Foams (CS): Fine?

Machine Bacteria (CS): Fine?

Eukaryotic Sap (RB): Robust saps -> ascetic acceptance propaganda program... And Riftborn already like sterile so what's going on here?

Baryonic Shielding (CS): Fine?

Pev-Scale Accelerators (CS): Fine?

Vacuum Protection (RB): Fine?

Wave Function Control (CS): Fine?

Evaporation Inhibitors (CS): Fine?

Graviton Research (CS): Fine?

Tachyon Physics (CS): Fine?

Climate Engineering (CS): Fine?

Unified Tachyon Theory (CS): Fine?

Empire:

Adaptive Bureaucracies (CS): Fine?

HyperPACs (CS): Fine?

Personal Singularities (RB): Fine?

All hull techs (RB): Fine? Basic descriptions, unique hulls (probably as intended)


Unfallen

[NOTE] Celestial Vines & Unfallen Affinity visible. CV/UF short.

Military:

High-Energy Magnetics (UF): Fine?

Adamantian Alloys (UF): Fluffed, no unique unlocks

Trade:

Atmospheric Filtration (CV): Fluffed, no unique unlocks

Maximized Exploitation (CV): Fluffed, no unique unlocks

Science:

[NOTE] Seems everything with colony tech are affinity marked only due to how Unfallen colonize.

Xenobiology (CV): Affinity marked & fluffed yet nothing unique

Rare Earth Foams (CV): Affinity marked & fluffed yet no uniques

Machine Bacteria (CV): So.. Fine?

Eukaryotic Sap (CV): Fine?

Baryonic Shielding (CV): Fine?

Pev-Scale Accelerators (CV): Fine?

Wave Function Control (CV): Fine?

Evaporation Inhibitors (CV): Fine?

Empire:

Adaptive Bureaucracies (CV): Fine?

HyperPACs (CV): Fine?

Resonator of the Heart (UF): Fine?

Perfect Negotiations (UF): Fine?

Chaotic Meteorology (UF): Fine?

All hull techs (UF): Fine? Basic descriptions, unique hulls (probably as intended)


I'm just saying, the dual affinities are a bit confusing before you dig into it.

Updated 7 years ago.
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7 years ago
Dec 8, 2017, 8:03:34 PM

Maybe you would like to give modding a try? This is something you could work on if you're interested. It's not really all that difficult, just a little bit time-consuming.

Updated 7 years ago.
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7 years ago
Dec 9, 2017, 10:21:42 AM
lilyophelia wrote:

Maybe you would like to give modding a try? This is something you could work on if you're interested. It's not really all that difficult, just a little bit time-consuming.

Kinda sorta interested? But I'm just an amateur. I did check the modding tutorial in the mod subsection once but being the noob I am I wasn't able to figure out much.


I understand some basics like how to just tune the numbers in xml files to directly affect the values in-game but I've no clue for example how to edit the images like for this tech tree fix project.


In GUIelements there is relatively simple information like this.


<!-- N-WAY FUSION -->
    <TechnologyGuiElement2 Name="TechnologyDefinitionEconomyAndTrade1" X="-1.5" Y="0">
        <Title>%TechnologyDefinitionEconomyAndTrade1Title</Title>
        <Description>%TechnologyDefinitionEconomyAndTrade1Description</Description>
        <Icons>
            <Icon Size="Small" Path="Bitmaps/Atlased/Technologies/TechnologyDefinitionEconomyAndTrade1Small" />
        </Icons>
    </TechnologyGuiElement2>

    <TechnologyGuiElement2 Name="TechnologyDefinitionEconomyAndTrade1Sophons" X="-1.5" Y="0">
        <Title>%TechnologyDefinitionEconomyAndTrade1SophonsTitle</Title>
        <Description>%TechnologyDefinitionEconomyAndTrade1SophonsDescription</Description>
        <Icons>
            <Icon Size="Small" Path="Bitmaps/Atlased/Technologies/TechnologyDefinitionEconomyAndTrade1Small" />
        </Icons>
    </TechnologyGuiElement2>

I get the basic structure but I can't find the bitmaps path to actually fix stuff like the misplaced tech images.


Maybe I'll try to learn someday. Would be cool to help Cyrob with his community mod project for example instead of tossing random ideas out what to edit. But still, I consider stuff like these wonky techs really something that the developers should put straight. Imagine a new player hopping on to the game and looking at off-world agribusiness and then thinking "why is there an alien speech bubble icon here?". It makes the game look messy. Mods can fix a game but that shouldn't be the the starting point. "Install this game and these 20 mods and it'll be barely playable". Yeah okay, /rant.


Next I should go through the political impacts of techs and see how they correlate with the actual techs and their unlocks. Seeing how things are currently, I suspect there might be a thing or two to point out as well. Probs gonna do another fancy multi-color pic out of that but we'll see. Time, time, it ain't endless.



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7 years ago
Dec 9, 2017, 11:33:17 AM

Didn't look at all one by one, but great job here.

During EA all techs had the correct description , but as game progresed and tech tree was modified, some techs lacks their correct lore text. suppose as game progressed it will be moved again to propper place.

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