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Scientist & Religious Politics: The Odd Ducks Here

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7 years ago
Jan 24, 2018, 2:28:51 AM

I've noticed that of all the political parties, the Scientist and Religious parties are the least clear and unified in their execution. I think this is something that should be addressed, as while the laws are perfectly functional, they should also support clear playstyles instead of serving as a pair of crutches for certain oddball factions.


Italics are used for laws which seem out of place, but are reasonably related to their overall party

Bolding is used for laws which seem out of place, and do not have an apparent relationship to their overall party.


Industrialist

0- Dust from Construction

1- Faster/Better Expansion

2- Boosted Industry/Strategic Resource Production

3- Increased ship health

4- Boosted Industry


Each law provides additional capacity to construct things. Increased ship health prevents the loss of construction to warfare.


Ecologist

0- Unlimited colonization

1- Boosted Food/FIDSI on Anomalies

2- Boosted Food, Cheaper Diversification

3- Boosted Science from Diversity

4- Boosted Industry from Diversity


Each law provides a method for growing population, or exploiting a diverse and large population. While unlimited colonization options tend to be used for wide expansion, they also do a lot for letting a player keep existing colonies from capping out too quickly.


Militarist

0- Approval from Wars

1- Cheaper Ships

2- Cheaper Upkeep, Looting

3- Approval from Conquering

4- Boosted Troops/Ship Damage


Each law rewards or enables war and aggression.


Pacifist

0- Forced Peace

1- Cheaper Diplomacy

2- Boosted Approval from Peace/Alliance

3- Boosted Dust/Luxury Production

4- Boosted FIDSI from Peace/Alliance


Each law rewards or enables peaceful diplomacy or trade resources.


Religious

0- Free Invasions

1- Population Suppression/Dust Boost

2- Hero/Ship Experience Boost

3- Regulated Approval

4- Faster/Cheaper Pacific Conversion


These laws have no clear or unifying style or theme. Each law provides a powerful effect in a totally different area, and many of the effects seem to be a crutch for the Vodyani, much like Scientist politics are a crutch for the Sophons. Ignoring borders is good for leeching, bonus Dust is great for Vodyani growth while restricting other populations is meaningless to them, Hero and Ship experience is good for Vodyani who like running fleets and Heroes, Approval allows infinite expansion, and Pacific conversion boosts a late game tech that is only useful with an overwhelming Influence advantage. Overall the Religious party is like a Good Stuff deck in Magic- a random assortment of decent abilities with no deliberate synergy or internal logic, which in this case also means filling in various holes in the Vodyani playstyle necessary for them to function. In addition, on its own Saints & Sinners makes this a better Militarist party than the Militarist party.


Scientist

0- Additional tech reach

1- Cheaper Buildings

2- Faster Ships

3- Boosted Food

4- Boosted Ship Module Damage


A couple of these laws follow an internal logic which ties back to the concept of Scientist, but in general this party is a crutch for Sophons where the Religious party is a crutch for Vodyani. The ability to reach the next layer of techs is nice, but is generally only useful to Sophons due to their Omniscience bonuses, and exists to justify those bonuses; cheaper buildings make it easier for Scientist factions to build things they research, but this mostly fill the problem of Sophons being unable to build their most extravagant long-shot techs; boosted Food... I don't know why that's here, honestly? The remaining two laws make some sense, as ship speed is good for exploration of curiosities, which is a part of the Science tech tree which Scientist factions are expected to go down; however, boosted ship module damage sounds nice, but is functionally identical to half the effects provided by the last Militarism law, as all damage comes from modules anyways. The law almost works like Technology Lover from Endless Legends Vaulters, but not quite.



Overall it seems to me that these two parties need to be cleaned up, and some of their features just might belong in the factions that most use them instead of in these parties, because of how much those factions seem to rely on these specific political gimmicks, to the detriment of other factions who don't have the same synergy and cannot use the same political gimmicks. My only ideas at the moment are an (admittedly boring) Scientist law that boosts Science on Anomalies or just boosts Science over all, a law that adds some Science to Dust or Industry, and a Religious law that produces materials from thin air to support a theme of enabling isolationist/poor empires who focus on Influence production, as with the Vaulters new hero ability.


Does anyone have any other possible suggestions as to how to tighten up these two political parties?

Updated 7 years ago.
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7 years ago
Jan 24, 2018, 3:45:56 AM

Honestly the entire Politial Affiliation system needs a bit of a cleanup. They're each associated with a specific resource (Unless they aren't), but those resources tend to not really matter much to some of them. Religious techs focus on Influence, which the one Religious faction simply... doesn't particularly care about. Especially with their Religious law removing the Influence requirement for harassing enemies. And then Ecologists focus entirely on Food (Which, barring the Tier 1 and Tier 2 techs in the Empire Developent quadrant, are universally terrible and not worth purchasing) and Happiness (which is incredibly easy to reach an excess of with certain factions, especially the Unfallen, meaning you likely won't have to build any Ecologist structures.) But one of the things that increases your Ecologist ideology is recruiting new minor factions, but doing so requires a Religious tech and either Pacifist or Militarist actions. Just... what?


What needs to happen is each Political Affiliation needs to be focused towards a certain Victory Condition, with the Victory Conditions themselves getting some manner of quick tweak. Then the Techs, Laws, and Actions relating to each Affiliation can relate to that Victory condition. For example, we can change up the Religious victory condition to be related to, say, Wonders, and have their laws grant bonuses on the construction of Wonders, have their techs related towards a more "Going Tall" strategy, etc. etc. (Which would also require a tweak to the Wonders system, but that's a topic for another time.)

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7 years ago
Jan 24, 2018, 8:03:38 AM

I don't believe the affiliations need to be directed exclusively towards victory conditions, they just need cleaning up.


In beta, Ecologists had a law which increased foreign immigration. That law was cut for some reason, as was the mechanic it references. Food and Approval have their own myriad problems that have been covered elsewhere, making every Food/Approval bonus underwhelming because "oh yay, more Food/Approval to continue being maxed out on." But that's been talked about more than enough around here.


Point is, each political party can make sense, if the mechanics they reference could just make sense. Which they don't right now.

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7 years ago
Jan 26, 2018, 8:46:14 PM

Hum... Yeah, i can see the problem there; laws from each political parties giving bonuses factions having them by default already have... Factions should not stack more bonuses they don't need because they stick to their native politics.

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