Digging deepr into the previous Ark design sugestions, I'm very surprised that Amplitude tagged using hero ship interface for Arks as unfeasible due to too much micro. If anythig, I think that would've considerably streamlined Ark management, but that is my 2c...

Seems kind of odd you (Amplitude) don't want to encourage "battle" Arks. Since Arks can mount weapons and defenses, that automatically suggests that is one use for them. Maybe one way to limit their offensive power in war while giving them (some) ability to defend against sudden attack is to lower their overall combat ability, but but buff them (especially HP and defense) when anchored to a system. Instead of requiring a siege (takes away a bit of the uniqueness of the faction), make an anchored Ark durable enough that it would take a few turns for most fleets to destroy it.

I kind of like Laraje's idea for FIDSI modules (upvoted). One of my impressions in my (limited) time with the Vodyani is there is this awkwardness with fitting FIDSI enhancement in the ship design system. It needs to be easier to specialize and easier to upgrade FIDSI modules to their higher tier versions.

But I also really hope we get the option to refit from one design to another design of the same hulltype (Arks or not). It would make Ark mangagement and fleet management less awkward and more fluid.

Aitarus wrote:

Neron wrote:
1.If you do not want Arks to be a battle ship then make it so that they are sieged properly. Because right now every pirate/enemy faction fleet just attacks my ark and i lose my system. There are tons of buildings and luxury upgrades that becomes useless for vodyani because you just can destroy ship and that is all. TL:DR Vodyani captured systems should be sieged same way as others

This is the crux of the issue. You have made Arks disproportionately vulnerable, no matter how much HP and how many slots you give them - I still don't quite comprehend why the rework to upgraded Arks added so many slots - they cannot withstand a fleet attack. Either they have to be capable of defending themselves in space combat or they should be immune to it altogether when anchored. You seem to have a conflicting concept here with actions, if anything the latest changes imply battle Arks are intended.

As it stands the best defensive strategy for Vodyani is to stack many engines on your Arks and retreat ad nauseam while under attack. It kind of works but it's not exactly a fluid design.

Actually if late game you have at least few defensive ships that will be targeted first with modules to repair, ark can destroy anything on its way.
Kinda similiar to Riftborn, they are glass cannon, but vodyani ships are really flexable.

Tho as i mentioned to even get to that point of a game where arks are that powerful, good luck with vanilla vodyani :P

jhell wrote:

A quick precision to say that we don't wish to actively encourage players using "battle" Arks ; while it's certainly a possible use for an expert player, having a dedicated design might imply to newer/casual players that this is how you're supposed to play Vodyani, but we feel it might actually end up being confusing and detrimental to the feeling of the faction.

However we know this is a big concern for you and we are going to try and work out a solution from your suggestions and what is technically feasible for us.

Great to hear the feedback from you guys! An idea is probably to reduce how much firepower the arks have. They should be able to defend themselves, especially early game, but shouldn't be doing more than a carrier.

I think as I mentioned in my post that it may be best to treat arks like how planets are treated for other races, where modules are planet specializations and can either be bought or queued, while all the info is on the system rather than the ship design menu.

Also as Neron mentioned, I think when arks are docked (if firepower is reduced to get rid of battle arks) is to somehow make it more viable for other factions to do ground battle rather than just poking the ark in a ship battle. Either it be making ship battle impossible when an ark is docked or give the ark big firepower bonuses only when they're docked.

jhell wrote:

A quick precision to say that we don't wish to actively encourage players using "battle" Arks ; while it's certainly a possible use for an expert player, having a dedicated design might imply to newer/casual players that this is how you're supposed to play Vodyani, but we feel it might actually end up being confusing and detrimental to the feeling of the faction.

However we know this is a big concern for you and we are going to try and work out a solution from your suggestions and what is technically feasible for us.

So here are few thing you guys need to look at.:
1.If you do not want Arks to be a battle ship then make it so that they are sieged properly. Because right now every pirate/enemy faction fleet just attacks my ark and i lose my system. There are tons of buildings and luxury upgrades that becomes useless for vodyani because you just can destroy ship and that is all. TL:DR Vodyani captured systems should be sieged same way as others
2. If you guys want to leave them being system and battle at the same time, then design is necessary. New players after few games will not play vodyani i can tell you that ( only masochist like me will still play them lol). TL:DR at least 2 design slots are necessary for experienced players for comfortable use.
3. Take a look at late game Ark. It is really strong, stronger than crusader (i had damage in Ark 110k, while crusader was 70k i think). I should not say this, but they are really strong deep late game, where almost all techs are learned (i mean good luck survivng that as a vodyani in multiplayer, without mods)

Suggestions:
1. Make 2 desing slots
2. Remove combat ability from them, but make them siegeable like any other system, with slight bonuses to FIDSI modules early (obviously because early game combat power removed)

Maybe having the hulls hidden in the fleet screen by accessible if you double click on the Ark hull in the galaxy view would do the trick?
You don't have you hull design list overflowing with Arks then and you are still able to easily edit an Arks design.

A new ui for editing the Ark FIDSI modules would be welcome - detaching it altogether from the usual support modules and giving a set amount of locked slots for them that can only be accessed from the system. I'm not sure which requires more work but it'd do.

eruanion wrote:

Hmm, personally I think that might be too much to have a separate design for every ark on the military screen.

You actually need only 2.
"Battle ARK" and "Station ARK"

If you are a new player i do not think they would be bothered with that, but as you gain experience as a vodyani you will feel the lack of option and the hardship of remodeling ark everytime.

Hmm, personally I think that might be too much to have a separate design for every ark on the military screen. But you can currently view the design of a specific ark by selecting the ark from the galaxy map and double-clicking on the icon (lower right panel). If the devs would just make that design editable so you can switch out modules, that would accomplish nearly the same thing. The ark would then have an unnamed custom design, but if the devs designed the system right they could give the option to further edit that unnamed design as needed or retrofit to a specific named ark design as needed.

Or, I'd go for a specific Ark Designs screen where you can see and edit all of your Arks without cluttering up the military screen.

What'd make the most sense is that every time you build a new ark its design would show up among the other ship designs. The arks all have unique names so you should be able to easily upgrade them individually, given how a simple double-click on any ship can take you to the editing board.
I realize that it may leave the blueprints page with lots of ark designs but I think it is a very small price to pay for the relief it would be.
My friend that I regularly play multiplayer with says the same. The only thing that holds him back from playing Vodyani is this.

Upvoted. I was meaning to create a thread about this too. It would make a lot of sense to introduce this.