In multiplayer you can really gain the advantage by allying with your neighbor and coordinate all tech research. You go exploration tree, I go industry/dust tree, then we exchange tech everytime we make a discovery. Super hefy boost, and if others do not compensate by doing the same, you have quite the advantage.

This is one reason I'm not too fussed about how restrictive the AI is with tech trading. I personally feel that tech trading needs some changes, such as limiting tech trading or changing it to boost science/reduce tech cost in the specific tech you "trade". Latter is something I like that makes sense too, as it feels more like your faction is teaching your ally the tech but they still need to pull their own weight to utilize it fully.

Either way, the tech trading in Alliances is really strong and it's why I tend to avoid going too overboard with it even if it's possible in my AI/player games, cause it feels kinda like cheating and speeds things up more than I like in terms of technology research.

One other option for obtaining exclusive techs is to introduce a salvage module that has a chance to discover other races techs from either battlefield wreckage or when you take over their world. This could work in conjunction with Privateers so you could send a fleet to harrass an ally but they don't know its you and have a chance at an exclusive tech. Once you obtain the salvage, you would need to start a research project to unlock the tech.

I've been saying this for a long time now. Direct tech trading is not a good thing. It is a hassle to balance for and the AI always seems to get it wrong (either over or under valuing a given tech). We should instead be trading research points from a gradually accumulating pool in one of the 4 tech branches. This is done in Fallen Enchantress: Legendary Heroes and it works to prevent people just instantly obtaining super valuable techs from frivolous trades.

Thats why in my Mp game (and in mt solo games) we just dont trade tech, exept exclusive ones (for its equivalent always). It's really the best way to break the game against AI.

On another subject, i really like the fact that AI accept some fair trades of equivalent strategic resources easily. They almost always accept, for instance, X titanium for X hyperium and conversly and this for each strategic resource tier.  It really make the game sweet. If you are in trouble to trade with AI , ireally suggest you to use this.

SirBagel wrote:

Dragar wrote:

Slashman wrote:

I've been saying this for a long time now. Direct tech trading is not a good thing. It is a hassle to balance for and the AI always seems to get it wrong (either over or under valuing a given tech). We should instead be trading research points from a gradually accumulating pool in one of the 4 tech branches. This is done in Fallen Enchantress: Legendary Heroes and it works to prevent people just instantly obtaining super valuable techs from frivolous trades.

Agreed. Or have an agreement that increases science output of both empires by a fraction of each other's science. 

A really good idea, but how will I get to extort the mutually-exclusive techs from the AI after these changes? :( 

I guess good changes demand sacrifices.

An alternative solution could be to not trade the tech itself in kind of an insta buy way, but instead you get a considerable discount on researching the tech you bought from someone. The tech then is added to a list (something like a side menu to the tech screen) where you can then select it for reasearch (with a discount). Thus, even faction exclisive techs could be traded.

One thing I'm always hugely in favour of are changes to the game rules that makes AI evaluation easier.

Numinumi wrote:

In multiplayer you can really gain the advantage by allying with your neighbor and coordinate all tech research. You go exploration tree, I go industry/dust tree, then we exchange tech everytime we make a discovery. Super hefy boost, and if others do not compensate by doing the same, you have quite the advantage.

This is one reason I'm not too fussed about how restrictive the AI is with tech trading. I personally feel that tech trading needs some changes, such as limiting tech trading or changing it to boost science/reduce tech cost in the specific tech you "trade". Latter is something I like that makes sense too, as it feels more like your faction is teaching your ally the tech but they still need to pull their own weight to utilize it fully.

Either way, the tech trading in Alliances is really strong and it's why I tend to avoid going too overboard with it even if it's possible in my AI/player games, cause it feels kinda like cheating and speeds things up more than I like in terms of technology research.

I've been saying this for a long time now. Direct tech trading is not a good thing. It is a hassle to balance for and the AI always seems to get it wrong (either over or under valuing a given tech). We should instead be trading research points from a gradually accumulating pool in one of the 4 tech branches. This is done in Fallen Enchantress: Legendary Heroes and it works to prevent people just instantly obtaining super valuable techs from frivolous trades.

BadBecauseMad wrote:

Also anyone got any success with receveing a pop from AI from advanced diplomatic demand? They seem to always refuse it even when their systems are overpopulated and pops even stuck on (civilian) ships outside them. I fancy that option a lot but sadly couldn't use it at all. And it would be nice if u could demand 1 or 2 or 3 pops instead of fixed 3 and was able to also get riftborn or vodyani with it (since they never migrate naturally).

I think the only time I've had an AI accept the demands is the basic ones for a few resources. I've never had them accept the advanced demand and they always pick the penalty, even if that penalty severely cripples them. I've even tried doing this to my allies and they still prefer the penalties over any of the special demands or tech.

I love the advanced demands, really unique options, and I can see it being really fun in multiplayer, but the AI seems hellbent on always refusing them no matter how far behind they are.

I think the AI values dust pretty well. It's not very useful. 

Numinumi wrote:

That said I've noticed how little they seem to value dust despite barely having anything themselves. They also seem to undervalue being given technology while overvaluing their own. 

Yep, that was glaring to me.  While on one hand I like the fact that you can't just bribe the AI to do whatever the hell you want (like Galactic Civ 2), on the otherhand dust is almost completely usefless in diplomacy.  I would have the AI value it a bit more.

And as you say, the AI is very protective about its tech, which is fair, but there still needs to be some viability in exchanging tech.  Right now the AI seems to overvalue its tech compared to tech we offer even if they are on the same tier. 

AIs don't like you taking all their stock of a particular resource. For example, if you were to ask for 50 less than what they have in stock, fairly sure they'd accept. Same thing applies when making demands, if you ask for all their stock they won't accept and will take the penalty 100% of the time.