The population bonuses Extreme Foremen & Planet Menders should either be incompatible with each other, Planet Menders needs to be moved into the primary category with Extreme Foremen, or Planet Menders needs it's value cut in half. My reasoning is as follows:

Taking both in your custom population gives you the benefit of a massive FIDS bonus (which is fair if planets get depleted). However the custom population gets the FIDS bonus and there are no depletion points. This gives an absurd FIDS advantage.

Extreme Foremen should function like a double edged sword, but Planet Menders completely negates the drawback.

This combination makes other choices vastly inferior in my opinion.

@Suis3i: If you use the Extreme Foremen/Planet Menders combo, starting with depletion is not a disadvantage though? (as the foremen FIDS bonus is not affected by the level of depletion. A nearly depleted planet produces as much as a healthy one, the malus kicks in only when the planet turns Undepleted)

Suis3i wrote:

Basically, you still get an early game disadvantage (as your home planet is 60-70% depleted), and although it gives a huge bonus; it is for custom factions, and I for one, dislike any new regulations on how I'm able to create a "custom" faction, since it's already quite controlled. 

And if other players find this choice to OP or better than others, then that's their choice

Even with this OP option, I still have created custom factions that do not use the Extreme Foremen and Planet Menders combination, with only one using the combination  

If something is too strong, the reason for keeping it that way is not: "You don't have to pick it". It should be balanced in such a way that it does not overshadow the other choices. Imagine fighting against a faction that uses this combination. Unless they are really bad at the game you will lose because their FIDS production will be so high you can't compete if you're not using it as well.

Customs factions are always OP. Without a major overhauling of the system, it will remain that way whether this is available or not. I don't think it's a priority concern.

Aitarus wrote:

Customs factions are always OP. Without a major overhauling of the system, it will remain that way whether this is available or not. I don't think it's a priority concern.

^^^ This; 

@CipherOmega, like Aitarus stated, custom factions will always be OP, you get to create your own faction, "balance" it or not "balance" it in anyway you'd like, and create a faction with positives without negatives that will outdo any of the standard Major Factions. This is b/c Major Factions are, more or less, balanced in different ways where they're generally good at a few things, with several downsides and weaknesses that can be exploited. Players also know these factions quite well, and it makes countering them all the more easy, while countering any Custom Faction is difficult since, generally, only the creator knows how to truly exploit and counter said faction. 

Now claiming that this specific combination for a Custom Faction is OP, and thus we should "balance" it by preventing users from using that combination (which is what I assume is the way that most of you who would want to "balance" this) is ridiculous. If you don't want to play a MP game with someone using that combination then don't. But for those of us who want to play PVAI games with this combination, or even just having the option to create this combination, we shouldn't be restricted from using it.

On top of all of this, I still prefer "Meritocratic Society" or "Adept Workers" with some other bonus like "Logisticians" over the "Extreme Foremen" and "Planet Menders" combination. It's OP, but that doesn't mean someone will create and play only custom factions that are using that combination. 

And to reiterate Aitarus point, the custom faction creation system would (and in some cases, should) require a major overhaul, which honestly, should be toward the bottom of Amplitudes list of things-to-do. There are just more important game mechanics that need fixing, and new content that is just a higher priority. 

I get they will always be way stronger, but the power difference with that combo specifically is just absurd.

Actually a poll about this would be very interesting for us. We're reluctant to forbid the more extreme combinations for customs, and this one is definitely powerful. So really, it depends on what you guys want to be able to do :)

I really do like making a strong custom faction, because that's a lot of the fun for me. I just don't like it when I stumble onto something that really makes everything else not even a choice. It would be great if the devs made a poll about priorities on the game itself because I don't know everything that you guys are doing as far as updates, and would have a better grasp on the different aspects that need attention.

talking about stuff that eliminates choice adept workers ( 5 dust 5 industry 5 science) and meriocratic cosmopolites ( 2 FIDSI) are two trait which maybe should have a cost increase, since they give way more value for points value then most of the other traits.

as an example you can get 5 food for 15 points which is 1 production value for each 3 points spend, while adept workers give 1 production value for every 1.6 points, which is almost twice as good, and lets not compare it to stuff like banker which gives 1 dust for 5 points.

or maybe all of the traits be looked at and balnce so that they more closy resemble the production-to-point value of adept works.

what would be best increase the cost of some the goo traits, or increase the values of others?

While I agree that the +5 food trait (Bounteous Gardeners? I'll shorten it to Gardeners) is too expensive in comparison to Adept Workers (Adept) and Meritocratic Cosmopolites (Cosmo), it does have the distinct advantage in that it grows population much faster, so you'll get planetary per-pop yields faster, which outpaces all population yield bonuses except for Extreme Foremen. Once a planet is filled up then Adept and Cosmo are better, but there will be several turns in which Gardeners nets you a higher overall yield.

Cosmo is not necessarily weaker than Adept, because they yield influence - enough to support a tier 2 law all by themselves. That's a very good bonus in my opinion.

Also, don't Adept Workers use production to gain population (and cannot grow naturally)? Or is that just a trait associated with the Riftborn visual affinity? If so, then comparing them to any other yield type becomes much more complicated.

I'd like to see a balance pass on population yield traits, their costs, and collection bonuses as well. But there are other more glaring issues the devs should pay attention to, so I wouldn't mind waiting for a fix in this regard.

adept workers can just be put on any pop, building pops is a riftborn thing.

in addition cosmo actually has the best production-to-points value in game, and the influence gain is unrivaled.

also there is a distinct lack in traits that benefit temperate planets.

and lastly I agree that doing a balance pass over the traits would be nice but should be low on the list of things to take a look at.

Maybe insteaf of removing combinations from the custom race creation we can have some simple scenarios we can choose for games? For example setting some factions to be in constant alliance right from the start or creating a scenario where everyone starts off at war with the player or are always at war with the player/players.

Perhaps an option to give each AI two systems under their control?

This way, you can play some crazy exploitable combo but can also make the AI setup harder in more interesting ways.

I'm not playing custom factions yet, but in general when I play custom games, identifing combos that are more powerful than others are half the fun. And therefore I don't think custom game balance should be much of an issue, but of course there should be a limit to everything. If a single combination is much more powerful than any other it can be a reason to limit it. But are we sure there are no other options that are close to being as powerful as this one?

_ How does it work out in multi-player games? Are customisation ever allowed in multi-player games, and if so, does is this combo over-represented in wins?