Hi,

I would talk about laws and parties.

I love laws, what they give, and how to get them. And I'm pretty happy of balance between parties and how to get them (specially Military) since the last patch.

But I feel like the scientific laws are pretty far away from the science party. I mean, every other parties unlock laws that are a better version of themselves. Industry law upgrade industry, Religious upgrade heroes and cultural influence, Ecology upgrade food, Military upgrade the benefit from war, Pacifist upgrade the benefit from peace.

But I didn't feel the same for scientific laws.

List of Laws :
unlock + 1 stage => Ok
+ 20 % reduction cost of system improvement => Can be ok. It's always difficult to build every builds you unlock

+ 3 movements 

+ 30 % food in system

+ 33 % damage to ships

The last three are powerful, but they are less thematic with the science party. It could be possible to find some laws more thematic (science or exploration) ? 

What do you think about it ?
Is there a Game Designer to give his/her opinion ?

Regards,

Elphealer

Movement is pretty thematic - it's about increased exploration speed of the galaxy.

The last two are certainly out of place.

Dragar wrote:

Movement is pretty thematic - it's about increased exploration speed of the galaxy.

For the exploration speed, it would be nice to have better probes too ? More view, or more time in space ?

Maybe. I do wonder if +2 speed and some bonus to probes would heighten the theme. The +3 speed is a huge bonus.

On the other hand, science bonuses in particular are heavily tied to Sophon balance, who probably deserve the better bonus.

I think devs wanted scientists laws to be "useful when you have a large science output." These laws are not meant to boost your science. Rather, they help the science to pull your empire.

Reduction cost of system improvements and more foods mean you can grow your systems faster and keep pace with scientific progresses. Faster fleets are also useful when you are at war but it is also meant to help your exploration missions. As you are likely to have unlocked higher exploration abilities, additional movements will give you more advantageous position in exploration. More damage to weapon modules can be seen as out of theme. But overall, theme of 'converting science into the empire's strength' is nice. And I think giving direct bonuses to science is not cohesive with that theme.

Guys, science laws reflect the Applied Sciences; “[Applied Science] is a discipline of science that applies existing scientific knowledge to develop more practical applications, like technology or inventions. ... This includes a broad range of applied science related fields from engineering, business, medicine to early childhood education“

SO BASICALLY 

Having a government/political ideology that favors Scientists means you’re more likely, than, let’s say an Industrial government/political ideology, to make use of a wide range of Applied Sciences than just favoring one particular area (i.e. Ecologists favor food production, industrialists favor industry/production of material (goods)) 

The science party, as states above, has little to nothing to do woth producing just science or being only science-oriented but making use of a pro-science population by using the vast amount of science and applying it to various sectors of your empire. 

But why science laws should have all this possibility, whereas any others are so focused on their thematic ?

Science law could not just help to apply science ? 

We think about a law which work like one of Riftborn's anomaly: the technology you currently search are applicable now. So you can build the building and have empire benefict the technology give.

Elphealer wrote:

But why science laws should have all this possibility, whereas any others are so focused on their thematic ?

Science law could not just help to apply science ? 

We think about a law which work like one of Riftborn's anomaly: the technology you currently search are applicable now. So you can build the building and have empire benefict the technology give.

B/c they’re reflecting the applied sciences, it would be near useless for the science party to be only focused towards the production of tech (science) since, science is an extremely diverse and wide area of study. By focusing it just towards the production of science the party wouldn’t be the science party but a particular branch of science since you’d be ignoring/deeming all other sciences as unimportant or not as important as the particular branch of science focused on tech (science) production. 

You have to look at science as more complex than just the advancement of knowledge and tech by and understand that the application of that tech is just as, or in this case, more important. It also is more realistic, if you have a party that promotes the sciences, and in effect the applied sciences, then their laws are likely to represent the applied sciences. 

On top of that, science production is already greatly improved by having a population affinity like “Peer-reviewed”, where having laws that further increase this will just be obsolete or lead to over excessive science production. I mean, just imagine the Sophons who can research even faster than they already can. 

Lastly laws like the tier 1 science law allow the factions industrial potential to keep up with their scientific research rate. 

I totally agree whit you in certain point. some of the science laws are not fitting to their thematic. for example, extra damage on fleets? militarist already have one. Plus it gives extra troop damage. 

I believe 4Influence per pop laws should be pretty benefic to fit whit their cost. But scientist law is not fitting to that. its basically a weaker version of militarist law itself. and that totally stinks. 

I believe we need to find a way to rework scientists laws, think on something that could help whit scientists laws be more scientific, instead of militarist, or ecologic. To be honest, i think scientific laws are much more ecologist than the ecologist party itself. 30% extra food is really a lot for every system you has. Maybe we need to think up on something that makes them more unique....

Also another point: Scientist laws are also very effective for riftborn, because of its extra movement speed (riftborn ships are filled whit attack and defensive modules, and few movement modules)  but i dont think the 30% extra food law is effective for riftborn?

Velorace wrote:

...

Also another point: Scientist laws are also very effective for riftborn, because of its extra movement speed (riftborn ships are filled whit attack and defensive modules, and few movement modules)  but i dont think the 30% extra food law is effective for riftborn?

Yeah, that law only applies to their food-consuming minor faction populations, so it's overall not that effective for Riftborn. I'd suggest changing food-based laws for that Affinity type so that it more reflects the Riftborn playstyle - sort of like some of the changes made to laws for the Vodyani.