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Ability to attack outposts during war

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7 years ago
May 9, 2018, 2:26:10 AM

It would be nice to be able to attack an outpost while at war.

Playing as Vaulters you can't colonize a system when there is an outpst already there.

Blockading the system may or may not have an effect and there is no way to tell if the outpost will decay.

It's kind of weird that colonized planets can be attacked but outposts are off limits.


I guess in the meanwhile if you are Vaulters and find a system you want you just need to keep it blockaded and destroy any colonizers.

But will you be given the chance to attack a colony ship before the colony is made?

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7 years ago
May 10, 2018, 3:47:12 PM

Yes frodak... you can colonizer ships before the colony is made. Also note that, if vaulters Arogosy is left untouched, they have a tendency of colonizing systems and giving them buffs in a very consistent manner that makes other empires, like sophons or riftborn for example, behind in terms of score because vaulters colonize instantily. Other empires well.. not so. 


I Believe vaulters are currently balanced the way they are right now, and i dont think the ability to attack outposts as vaulters would be a good addition to the game, because it would make them even stronger than they currently are. And there was even a discussion before that said "Vaulters are too OP!" So, buffing vaulters even further may not be a good idea, Frodak. :)


I also noticed you can destroy outposts during cold war if you simply put a scout ship and blockade the system that is being colonized. But note that the debuff on the system is quite small, and depending on the amount of food/ industry the system has... you will need two, 3 or even a attacker ship to efficiently destroy the outpost in its progress. Here is a tip for you!

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7 years ago
May 10, 2018, 6:21:13 PM

Maybe it's my game settings...


I tend to play on crowded maps.  On Serious difficulty I find that many of the "good" systems are already being colonized before I even get the chance to get the "free'" colonize a system in early game.  Paying the cost of early colonization is not possible because you won't have the strategic resources to pay for it.


Not sure if I agree that outpost attacks would make things unbalanced.  It's an ability that everyone gets.  I mean that if 2 empires are at war, why can't they destroy outposts.  You might want to do it because you want the area for yourself or to prevent them from expanding.


There is no adequate way of blockading an outpost to destroy it.  How many ships and at what rate?  Its a total guess and there is absolutely no feedback.  From what I've read in this forum and seen for myself in-game the outpost may have all the resources it needs to become a colony, irregardless of how many ships are part of the blockade.


Updated 7 years ago.
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7 years ago
May 10, 2018, 9:12:21 PM

Hey frodak, about your last statement, i dont think it is about How many ships. you have to count it like this: Scout ships, even at cold war, can blockade an enemy outpost and reduce its food/industry income (in case its a riftborn) but they do it very, very low. and if the AI you're playing whit activates at least one, or two buffs for its colony well... except that one scout ship might not be enough to destroy that colony. 


In order to counter that, you can build defender/attacker ships. And fill them whit movement modules so they get to the contest point faster. Then you will gradually destroy that outpost, and when it is complete, you can colonize it whit argosy again. 


Also, i have played a bit whit vaulters, and if you dont have the strategic resources for the faster colonization thingy, remember: you can buy them from the market. There is a specific tech that, if you research it, you will enter the market. you can get ab out 5 strategic resources for a very low amount of dust when you open the market the first time. 


And yes frodak, you can destroy other colonies as vaulters. You can invade them as vaulters and drop manpower on them, capture them... Or you can put defenders/attacker ships (or even tier 2 or tier 3 ships) in colonies to reduce their growth potential. The only concept i think it is unfair is to make ARGOSY  able to contest outposts. that would be unfair and buff the vaulters in a unnecessary way. :)


Hope this helps!

Updated 7 years ago.
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7 years ago
May 11, 2018, 2:09:55 AM

I updated my post because I used the word colony instead of outpost confusing the issue.


If a scout (or any ship) blockades an outpost it could start to starve the outpost.  Digging deeper into this, I've seen the indicator on the outpost go from 10 turns to colony to say 250 turns to colony.  That's not very useful and implies that the blockade is useless, you cannot starve the outpost by blockade.  Using ships that are better armed then a scout didn't change anything.  Why? Because it's a blockade not an bombardment of the outpost.  The turn to colony never became negative or indicated turns to starvation.


Declaring war doesn't matter either because it didn't allow the bombardment or invasion of the outpost.


I agree with what you say about the ARGOSY, but I would say that any ship with 0 attack probably shouldn't be able to blockade.  It's more or less a civillian ship.  I'm not asking for or suggesting any ship or empire to be different.


There are trade offs when playing as Vaulters.  Yes, you get buffs because you colonize instantly.  But in the games I've played I've seen empires get 2 or 3 colonies down before Vaulters get the 1st free colonization.  I don't have an issue with that its part of the balance of these things.


I just don't see why outposts are so special that they are off limits to attack and invasion.

Updated 7 years ago.
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7 years ago
May 11, 2018, 1:27:39 PM

I have a lot if experience playing Vaulters and I think you are being mislead by a somewhat unintuitive mechanic with them. When I first started using them I believed the best play when it came to colonizing was to always wait till my Golden Age was at least 13-15 turns long. This is a mistake. 


The better play is to always try and colonize with tue Argosy as early as possible. I am usually able to do it about 7 -5 turns faster than the free drop by focusing my early game efforts on generating as much of the T1 strategics as possible. This is somewhat map dependant, but you have a few outs even on a bad map with the right investment in hero skills and science techs. 


There are several videos that demonstrate this tactic on youtube...including 4xalchemists excellent videos on Vaulter DLC, and my own videos discussing and demoing the tactic on TheNosePlays. 


I agree with you that it is odd not to be able to use military to stop outposts, but it is the same for every empire. The advanatges of the Vaulters Argosy have to have counter play to be balanced to some degree. The trade off is you can get locked out of territory if you are not fast enough...but you can be very very fast. We are talking up to 3-5 fully functional systems in 30 turns fast, and you can snipe the best worlds despite logistical challenges due to portals. Give it a try and see what I mean. 

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7 years ago
May 11, 2018, 5:36:47 PM


Thank you everyone for the tips.  I'll take them into consideration.


The issue remains though is that outposts are special and cannot be attacked.  Is there any particular reason for this or just an oversight?

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7 years ago
May 12, 2018, 7:40:13 PM

I think it was more of a design decision than an oversite. The ability to just remove outposts in the early game may have been game breaking, and while this perticular mechanic may require some suspension of belief...it prevents military openings from dominating the early game. 

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