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AI diplomacy needs some love

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6 years ago
Jul 28, 2018, 5:24:46 AM

What's up with the AI's take on diplomacy?  This is a neglected area of the game that could really use some help.  The following is a rant, but with recent specific examples.  Devs, please take a few minutes to look at these issues.


Every major race I meet feels the same.  Whether it's the Unfallen or the Cravers, no one wants peace when I meet them unless I send a lot of good stuff their way.  I'd expect that of a warlike race, but peaceful races should be easier to please.


In my last game, I enjoyed playing a ridiculously overpowered custom race.  After I won from a conquest victory, I saw that I was ahead of everyone else in every category from a pretty early point in the game.  Yet during the game, the AI often considered itself "more powerful" than me during negotiations.  I fielded just as many ships as they did, but about 3x the CP and at a much higher tech level.  Why is the AI still saying they are stronger?  More than that, the silly UE declared war on me when I wasn't bothering them.  I quickly invaded and took half their best systems.  As I was invading their capital (and 1 turn from easily taking it), they sent a message asking for a truce in which I was supposed to give them my second best system that half way across the galaxy.  That is ludicrous!  As I said, the AI diplomacy really needs some love.


I also think that basic trade negotiations need to be looked at.  It seems that whenever I want to trade something, the AI asks for 10 times as much in return.  I understand that you don't want the AI to be taken advantage of, but at this rate, there simply isn't any point in trading with the AI.  Looking in to this, I've read that the AI will have little green exclamation points next to the things it wants, so that you can get better deals that way.  I've never seen any, so if this true, I'd like to know what triggers it as I've logged sooo many hours playing this wonderful game that I should know it backwards and forwards by now.


I wish I could say this over a beer so that you would know this was purely a rant from love of your work, but the commute is a killer.

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6 years ago
Jul 28, 2018, 10:50:57 AM

And of course there's that strange phenomena that no AI wants to exchange maps... (I'm tiresome in this aspect, devs hate me cause I say at minimal opportunity, and I'm already tiresome)

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6 years ago
Jul 30, 2018, 12:27:52 PM

Hello,

Thank you for your feedback.  We are sadly aware that the AI is not really at its best right now.  Each new update means that a lot of work has to be done to make sure it can use all the new features efficiently and sometimes it results in a few regressions and other issues. Making the AI better is a continuous process and you should see some improvements with the future updates.  


Have a nice day :)

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6 years ago
Aug 6, 2018, 6:12:20 PM

Indicators of what the AI wants from you might be helpful.  The only way to gauge what they like is to put it in trade and see how far the acceptane bar jumps--which would be fine except it takes a few moments to load every time you change something.  I also agree it's hilarious that any AI has the audacity to beg for mercy after losing four or five systems while hoping you won't notice it's asked for one of your best systems right next to your capital.


Overall, the AI's diplomacy behaviors are, in a word, unresponsive.  The AI's, as a whole, need help acting like individual opponents with personalities and reactions; as it is, they are very much a team that is completely arrayed against you and they will play that way, even in the most counterintuitive ways.  Their goal is not for any of them to win; their goal is to collectively stop you--while acting like they're not.


I have a save going right now where it's down to 30 turns left and two factions still have a good score lead on me, so war is really the only practical way to swing that difference and win...but my unfallen ally REPEATEDLY truced them, turn after turn, in spite of my war declarations and wildly successful attacks, even though those same enemies kept trying to attack their systems and I kept successfully defending them!  They had an alliance with me, so I know their approval couldn't be tanking; they just continually tried to keep me from neutralizing the Cravers so I could go after the Sophons (I know, weird right?  SOPHONS leading the scoreboard? Probably because I absolutely GUTTED the Cravers with boarding pods) so I finally left the damned alliance.


I recall one of your newer devs talking about developing AI personalities, so hopefully this kind of silliness is set to become a hilarious anecdote to share with future players as we move on to greater glories!

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6 years ago
Aug 6, 2018, 6:47:49 PM

I seem to remember that resources used to have little green pluses next to them if the AI wanted them. Unfortunately the aI was dumb because it only counted the diplomatic option, not the total value of it, so you could offer 1,000,000 Dust and get no response, but you could get a better deal whether you offered 1 Titanium or 30 Titanium.


Instead there really ought to be a system where the AI assigns a particular value to every resource and adds it all up to decide how much they like the deal, and then increase how much they value your resources as they become more buddy-buddy.


Also free resources are always useful because they can just sell them so it's weird the AI would ever not want the gifts you're showering them with. Even if they can't use your Luxuries, they still have value on the market. Same goes for Dust- why is money seemingly never a desired resource? (Aside from inflation being terrible, but Dust earned through diplomacy is actually one way to circumvent inflation.)

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6 years ago
Aug 20, 2018, 3:31:47 PM

I would add that diploamcy outside of the diplomatic screen is just as poor, with several missing mechanics.


I'm trying an alliance approach solo player game, having never done this before. I have found the same issues in diplomacy with a lack of AI personality and a lack of information (what green pulses?) on what the AI opponents and alliance members are prioritising and there seems to be no difference in or out of an alliance. I keep getting a message from one alliance member to keep my eyes open for new opportunities from them. I've played over half the game and no request has ever triggered.


The most teeth grinding issue about being in an alliance though is the sudden declaration of peace (a diplomatic mechanic) after investing so much time softening up the AI opponent to take their systems. Going into the diplomatic screen to reinitiate a war, is not only expensive, it's annoying game play and a waste of effort as within a few turns peace is triggered again. In an allaince surely the parties involved would get to talk about it before any declaration is given. A vote would be great and in a tie the player/s with the highest score/tech/CP count, or something meaningful, would get the casting vote.


My opinion on alliances is that they are only useful if you want a pacifist route to win the game (make sure you set the game victory conditions first) as the AI constantly declares peace (I'm guessing each time they lose a single ship but I have no evidence), otherwise they give no benefit that actually happens in game that you can't achieve on your own. Therefore the alliance mechanic is possibly only useful in multiplayer otherwise frighteningly underpowered for solo play throughs to the point of being a hinderance. If you're in an alliance then it has to mean something diplomatically, like having a joint goal (the big thing that is missing).


In a war setting the request for aid in defence or attack would be paramount to achieving a joint goal, be it expansion, securing resources to share, or securing safe intergalatic trade routes, and if missed there should be some negetive impact on the alliance along with the rewards from winning a war. This then would tie the diplomacy with AI personality and agendas, making diplomacy meaningful in the game. (Add an option to switch alliances off in the game settings)


This requires that the mechanic for viewing, requesting and being notified (also missing/broken) for assistance is fixed as part of a diplomacy overhaul.


If you believe this needs supporting then go to the Ideas tab and look for "Alliance diplomacy and common goals"

Updated 6 years ago.
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