Is the observance 50%??! I remember it as a straigth 50 when it was in a beta stage. I also think that miners as Hissho are way too strong. You can pull even more resources with adamantium ones.

Hi Gzar,

Do you have a save at hand? Probe efficiency is not supposed to stack, only probe stats (lifetime and cooldown).

The only probes that are supposed to stack efficiency are the ones that cause depletion, but then again they stack the depletion too... :)

I can't see it being as OP as you describe, have you ACTUALLY try to exploit it to see actual FIDS output? Or did you just jump to that conclusion looking at 200% mining rate?. You can mine only uncolonized planets, and that means pop will not multiply base planet output. For Terran that whould be 8/3/4/4 x2 = 16/6/8/8, while even colonized tiny Terran with population maxed whould give you 48/18/24/24.

Sublustris wrote:

I can't see it being as OP as you describe, have you ACTUALLY try to exploit it to see actual FIDS output? Or did you just jump to that conclusion looking at 200% mining rate?. You can mine only uncolonized planets, and that means pop will not multiply base planet output. For Terran that whould be 8/3/4/4 x2 = 16/6/8/8, while even colonized tiny Terran with population maxed whould give you 48/18/24/24.

Are you aware that those 16/6/8/8 will add to each pop on your home system? So if you have 10 pop you will get 160/60/80/80 for a single miner. And that is super strong on gas giants. In my game I was short on science and I just shot 2 probes at 2 cold gases - mmm that juicy 52 science per pop ;D

Oh, gee, it does. How did it slip past us during beta? :D

Sublustris wrote:

Oh, gee, it does. How did it slip past us during beta? :D

I most likely wrote about it one or two times but I didn't stack it with observance so I thought like OK this is damn strong but not insane.

mamarider wrote:

Gzar wrote:

Also allowing only hisso to get extra planet yields from mining isn't very good. Without that it's not worth it to waste a tech on those modules for anybody else so it's just a dead tech for most factions while for Hissio it's brokenly overpowered even if you make it non stackable. Those mining FIDS yields are ridiculous. And they get multiplied by +25% from another economic behemoth with bureau modules and the +25% FIDS law for a total of +50% for ridiculous homesystem outputs. Those FIDS bonuses need to be cut down while also making them available to everybody. Hissio are super strong already even without any mining.

HOW can you make those conclusions after 1.5 days of playing lol? Miners are great for almost any tall faction that wants more strategics. I played Vaulters, Sophons, Horatio during the beta - the ability to gain 6x value from the deposit is insane! Even 2.25x value if stacking is fixed is super good, it is like 12 high tier strategics per turn which is almost always more than you can have as those factions from system.

P.S. And strategic resource value went up because of Behemoths, their specializations, new high tier citadel improvements and Obliterator shots.

Base strategic yields were nerfed to 2-3 in this patch. So the best mining module will give you 4.5-7 with stacking fixed. This is about the same as if you had colonized the system and built the +1 and +2 strategic yield system improvements there. Much better use of the economic behemoth would be to just give it the the +% FIDS bureau modules.

Didn't know about that fix. May be it will be better to increase mining values than to take that uniqueness from Hissho and make it available for everyone.

These modules and the other tall functions for Hissho are things that I asked be made available to all factions to provide more diversity of play options. As for the stacking, it seems it wasn't intentional as jhell said so I expect it'll be resolved.

mamarider wrote:

HOW can you make those conclusions after 1.5 days of playing lol? 

Conclusions about balance can be made without even playing just by looking at the notes. I have been right on this, as has Gzar, more than enough times - so best to keep the discussion on the actual content of it rather than when the points are made.

Gzar wrote:

mamarider wrote:

Didn't know about that fix. May be it will be better to increase mining values than to take that uniqueness from Hissho and make it available for everyone.

But then if you increase the yields you make it overpowered for Hissio since they get the yields AND the planet FIDS too as a bonus making the module easily twice as good or more. This makes it overpowered and no brainer must have for Hissio. If you balance it for other races it's overpowered for Hissio if you balance it for Hissio it's underpowered for other races.

But those are two separate values, aren't they? Mining efficiency can be increased without increasing FIDS.