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Balancing: 2 items I think should be looked at

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6 years ago
Sep 23, 2018, 9:41:13 AM


Sim Camp tech.

Really strong tech. In our multi-player circle we all find it TOO strong when you are playing a fitting race. This can easily generate the industry output of a big colony.

While I am ALL FOR increasing meaningfullness of manpower on economic aspects, putting it into a non-reliable upgrade option makes it a luck's game. 

Too strong for a highly fluctuating, non-plannable upgrade.










Impregnable Shielding:


If these are not OP, I don't know what is. Sure, they are expensive, sure they require a legendary deed. Still. it's a bit insane how good this module is.





Just compare it to the best shield that you can research normally:






What do you think? Do you agree or disagree?


Updated 6 years ago.
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6 years ago
Sep 23, 2018, 10:21:34 AM

Yup, both of these are blatantly owerpowered. Sim Camp really should be made a unique building. 

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6 years ago
Sep 23, 2018, 7:53:05 PM

Impregnable shielding is a rng reward for a legendary deed, I dont think its op simply because there is a rng legendary beam reward that directly counters the strength of the shielding. 


and again, both those rewards on chamce. Biegel plating is a easier rng attainable alternative that is nearly as powerful. however the enormous reasource investment that needs to be made with the anihilator beams or impregnable shielding is so much that I do believe they are not OP.  On any galaxy setting even a high resource one it is difficult to field ships with many of these modules as the cost of investment is so high.


also remember you can chose a obliterator ability that can destroy a fleet without a battle and only a cooldown. So IMO there are enough counters in play. Fielding the anihilator beam and impregnable shielding accross most of your ships is a HUGE resource sink. So fielding a few special fleets with the module doesnt seem as bad as it appears on paper. 


Also notice the antimatter shield has more shield strength and less regen, with evasion that stacks. and also notice the hyperium shield negates critical damage. sometimes it's best to mix and match to have the strongest setup.


on the sim camp, I agree it should be unique but then it will strongly favor tall empires and manpower focused ones.

Updated 6 years ago.
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6 years ago
Sep 24, 2018, 1:06:27 AM

Sim Camp is my favorite building in the game, it opens up some new strategies which I love. It doesn't need a nerf at all, if anything just make it a normal tech everyone can research (I already use a mod for this). It's not very strong even if you build around it and quickly becomes trivial when systems are generating many thousands of industry. On it's own it just provides a small benefit for building the defense structures in every system even if they are never attacked, so they don't feel like a waste. If you really focus on manpower with system improvements you will still get less industry than if you went pure industry (or food), but it provides that tradeoff of having better defended systems plus a semi-decent amount of industry. Going "pure manpower" is otherwise completely pointless, it's not something you'd do without the Sim Camp improvement so it's not like it's adding a huge bonus to a normal strategy, it just makes that strategy viable.

Updated 6 years ago.
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6 years ago
Sep 24, 2018, 9:31:55 AM

Sim Camp tech - maybe bit OP, but it just a RNG. I like it just for flavor.

Impregnable Shielding  - I have it in my latest playthrough, I don't bother to install it because the upgrade cost is way too expensive.


Obliterator can clear everything.

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6 years ago
Sep 27, 2018, 11:12:45 PM

I'm not sure about the ship modules; I've never experienced them in-game. Impregnable Shielding is very expensive, industry-wise, compared to the final tier researchable module though - perhaps that's balance enough?


About the Sim Camp building, I don't think it's too powerful at all. My view is essentially identical with that of Astasia; it opens up a new strategy while making manpower buildings not economically useless. I would find changing the building into a wonder (that is, unique) to be extremely obnoxious. If anything, it should be put somewhere in a tech quadrant so as to remove the RNG factor that is apparently so unbalancing in multiplayer.

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6 years ago
Sep 28, 2018, 12:41:21 AM

IMHO:


It's more of a flavor module than something OP.


Critical damage always ignores defenses. Nobody else uses EMP in their fleets? They shutdown enemy shields, so free damage again (even if they use reduced crit dmg modules).


If you build a fleet based on energy weapons and put a specialized energy weapon boosting hero on it, it doesn't matter what shields the enemy will have, the damage will always be higher than what you can absorb (pretty much because your absorb and shield capacity is a flat value for each phase irrelevant of recharge, while weapon modules fire several times per phase).

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6 years ago
Sep 28, 2018, 1:38:53 PM

The only time Impregnable shielding isn't OP is in multiplayer when people actually know the mechanics of the game. In which case you'll very cleverly stack flat HP in your ships if you put any defense at all. And the moment you see anyone with any defenses you'll just stack crit to ignore them.


That being said the way combat mechanics work completely throws any balance out the window. Crits ignore defenses *and you canspecialize to crit nearly 100%*, defenses are horribly imbalanced with RNG rewarding players with modules which would be unbeatable if it weren't for the fact that crit and hero skills invalidate the modules entirely. The biggest most awesome hulls in the game have specialization in the weakest modules.


Ships and ship modules need acomplete overhaul and design pass.

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6 years ago
Sep 29, 2018, 4:59:48 PM

I believe the problem with the current combat system is that there are too many hard counters and too few soft counters.


When your fleet can ignore enemy shields / hull due to a combination of hero skills and critical modules there is no point to consider anything else but HP as a good defense.


Kinetics have insane dps but they only shine at short range and to get there you need large hulls that can carry tons of HP boosts to survive first phase (if you start at medium).


Missiles are completely useless due to how flak works. 1 Flak module should be able to only target a single missile and only shoot at missiles that target said ship, not neighbours.


Beams should have base debuffs (and upgraded debuffs or a 2nd debuff for strategic beams to make them a viable alternative to white versions).


Lasers are good all around.

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6 years ago
Oct 6, 2018, 8:09:40 AM

Wow.  Never seen that shield module before, or the deed to get it.  Guess my luck's just that bad.  That's one insane shield though.  More than four times the health, more than three times the capacity, a FULL reload each phase, almost 50% more energy defense and it even provides some projectile defense.  It's almost six times the industry cost and five times the strategic cost, but they're lower tier strategics which means less tech to extract them...


I'd say that one I-shield's worth four or five graviton shields, easily.  That's actually a MASSIVE jump compared to any standard tech unlock.  God help the poor soul who doesn't have some incredible beam weapons or the behemoth tech needed to insta-win the fight; two or three of those on a single ship could make it virtually invincible to entire fleets if they can't punch through it every phase.


As an aside, note the sim camp gives industry based on defenses, not actual manpower production; just having lots of food won't do a thing.  Gotta get those red improvements.  I wouldn't say it's overpowered; it just feels very unfair BECAUSE it's a random unlock that only one person's likely to get in a game.


Maybe the Umbral Choir will have the ability to steal blueprints for improvements like this so they can build them too?  That'd be fun...

Updated 6 years ago.
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6 years ago
Oct 6, 2018, 10:33:57 PM

Autochthon has it spot on.


Hero powers easiy bring penetration to close to 100%, crit damage can be brought to 0% extra damage, and it is quite abusable if you know what your doing.  When facing the AI, the tricks up its design sleeve are somewhat lacking to a human counterpart.


So this shield, against a hero'd fleet with 90% penetration, will reduce damage by 10% roughly.  With the line of damage getting so out of control witht he + damage + laser damage + hero damage + battle card + penetration values make items like these not worth the investment.

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6 years ago
Oct 7, 2018, 4:59:48 AM
plutar wrote:


So this shield, against a hero'd fleet with 90% penetration, will reduce damage by 10% roughly.  With the line of damage getting so out of control witht he + damage + laser damage + hero damage + battle card + penetration values make items like these not worth the investment.

It's even worse, because you can stack more than one hero (that penetration skill is a Senate skill) so you can reach 100% penetration with energy weapons, and THEN, even if you don't reach 100%, there's still that wondeful thing called Hull weakness.

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6 years ago
Oct 7, 2018, 11:16:26 AM

Critical hits desperately need not to ignore all defenses. It ruins all semblence of balance and strategy of ship design.

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6 years ago
Oct 7, 2018, 11:29:31 PM

Yeah, thinking on it now, I have to wonder if allowing full shield penetration at all was a good idea.  Allowing the massive values we can get even without much effort kinda marginalizes shields and forces the need for incredibly ones like the above, then allowing full bypassing just kinda makes the whole thing pointless.


I'm not a fan of things that make other game features pointless, honestly.  Doesn't matter if they're random rewards; they still stand to completely negate an entire design layer.  I'm not too keen on that idea.

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6 years ago
Oct 8, 2018, 10:48:22 AM

The only mechanics that should have ful;l shield bypass are ones with significant downsides. For instance Squadrons (which can be destroyed) or missiles (which are countered by flak and useless after basically one phase of combat).

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6 years ago
Oct 20, 2018, 6:08:04 PM

Just to drop in. You can always use the super shielding/weapon on hero ships.

A hero with +80% ship dmg aaand couple annihilator beams is a force to be reckoned with. Unlike 3k manpower. Or whatever else the reward can turn out to be.

And also it is a one time investment and the increased aggro is actually a benefit. 

Updated 6 years ago.
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