ENDLESS™ Space 2 is turn-based 4X space-strategy that launches players into the space colonization age of different civilizations within the ENDLESS™ Universe. Your Vision. Their Future.
A known problem in ES2 is that Approval is a non-issue. Theoretically a buffer against players easily conquering the entire map, that particular goal is easily overcome due to things like Federation and Saints & Sinners.
What I want to talk about though is how, if those Overcolonization bypasses were fixed, Approval could be used to reinforce a couple of other playstyles by tying them to Disapproval.
Overpopulation Locks: A new way to direct system growth
Overpopulation isn't optional. You will gain it at some point unless you're close to starvation, and as a result it needs to be very minor because players have no choice but to incur it. But what if it was optional, and required a conscious decision to keep populating the system?
In the past, it took certain upgrades to "unlock" slots, which were marked as locked on the System managmeent screen. (I don't remember how long ago this was, unfortunately) Bringing this back, locking overpopulation slots so they are inaccesible would allow Overpopulation Disapproval to be greatly buffed, because it would no longer be inevitable or mandatory. Ideally, we should spend Food to unlock these slots, as a way for high Food factions to spend their excess on more population without breaking the rule of 1 Pop = 300 Food = 300 Manpower. (Also, Overpop slots could be relocked with, say, Influence or a one-turn project each, so that these systems don't become permanent thorn gardens for conquering empires since they can't handle the combo of Overpopulation and Overcolonization Disapproval)
In turn, this would allow players to deliberately choose a strategy of higher population systems, spending their Approval accordingly.
Overcolonization: Cool it with the bypasses
There are three ways to overcome Overcolonization: Federations, which were originally balanced at a time when the Hero market was almost always empty; Automated Administration, which becomes easier and easier to work with over time; and the Saints & Sinners law for the Religious party, which completely removes the Approval mechanics as long as it's active. Simply put, Federation and Saints & Sinners need to have their current effects removed entirely, because they are now obvious choices for declawing Overcolonization as a balancing mechanic. Autonomous Administration is fine as it is, though it could do to cost a bit more Influence for each one already built as a way to create another soft cap on horizontal growth.
With Autonomous Administration slowing down over time without a very large and steady supply of Influence, and Federation and Saints & Sinners no longer silver bullets for constant expansion, players would have to actually decide whether or not they want to spend their Approval on extra systems if they want to "go wide," as it were.
Hero Threshold: A new way to focus the Hero mechanics
There's no such thing right now as a "Hero Strategy" in ES2. There are laws and effects which want you to have more or better Heroes, certainly, but they fall a bit flat because there's no particular way to focus on Heroes as a unique strategy which sets your empire apart from others. They just kind of happen. (Except with the Marketplace, which has swung all the way in the opposite direction by allowing the first person to rush the tech to suddenly explode in Hero capacity.)
So I suggest a Hero Threshold, much like the Overcolonization Threshold, though much lower and not necessarily tied to galaxy size. Tied to the number of Heroes a player has assigned (not every one they own, though!), if a player assigns more Heroes than their threshold allows, they begin incurring Approval penalties due to their peoples displeasure with the outsized influence of these unelected outsiders.
Conclusion: More important decisions, more distinct strategies
The result is that each of these becomes a legitimate, unique strategy, because the player will not be able to use all three of them to the greatest possible extent allowed by their Approval. If they want to spend all their extra Approval on new Systems, they cannot spend it all on higher Population for their existing systems, or enough Heroes to field lots of buffed up fleets and Governor-assigned Systems. (Incidentally this would be a great excuse to make the Religious party focus more heavily on Heroes because Heroes would now be a specific strategy for Vodyani or Hissho or Horatio, I'm just saying.)
Players would have to ask themselves if they'd rather have more Heroes, more Systems, or more Population, instead of getting all three with minimal investment over time.
Addendum: Hissho
For Hissho, just have them spend Keii as a one-time thing for assigning a Hero for the first time or unlocking an Overpop slot, or something. I don't necessarily have solutions for them, their ability to expand infinitely is already a bit of a problem. For Overcolonization at least I think they should pay Keii to Occupy systems, since it's not like Razing actually hurts their Approval any.
I would say federation is somewhat weaker now given that hacking allows for flipping governments, which while the targeted empire still stays federation there are a few turns of Anarchy where they lose all the federation bonuses. Which makes both strategies for over colonization’s not viable in MP against savvy players, but I doubt the AI is programmed to plan these hacks that take advantage of their dependency on Federation/Saints & sinners.
The Hero Threshold is an interesting Idea. Currently, hero count only is used to see how long the next academy hero will show up, some effect on having a lot more than others would be a nice balancing factor.
True, Federation is a little less reliable now, but the design is also just not as clean as it could be, especially since Heroes are such a weird and variable thing to assign. I'd much prefer if it had stayed the same as it's original form of a flat Colony Cap increase, but was increased by the later Empire Development stage unlocks just like Law Slots. That way it would be a known, predictable integer every game.
In regards to Hero Threshold, the nice thing is it lets someone have a lot of Heroes as a choice. These various Hero-tied abilities like the Vodyani and Horatio traits, or the Umbral Choir empire improvements from their Scientist path or the new quest rewards from Celestial Worlds, all start to make more sense when the use of Heroes becomes such a deliberate thing.
Overpopulation and Food are, as usual, the more difficult thing.
I don't think hacking has made federation governments weaker really; it's just made government flipping a more obvious choice when the enemy is a fed. I'd say that makes it RISKIER though...
The hero threshold is a curious notion to me. It does force a bit of a rock paper scissors choice between heroes, population or systems, which the game could probably use.
As far as approval neutering goes, part of the issue may be that approval generating bonuses give SO MUCH approval. T1 approval buildings give as much system approval as some T3's, depending on system resource and planet composition...and for only a fraction of the industry and upkeep. Add on to that the fact that we have a completely separate stat for "disapproval" and things start to look a little messy for balance, at least from where I'm standing.
The overpopulation thing though? I have to agree on that one; the fact that overpopulation is inevitable AND punishes approval can be a bit of a sticking point. The only justification I see for it is that it does force you to seek new worlds and find at least SOME approval bonuses to keep your pops productive, but I still have to wonder if that was the best way to do it...
...The hero threshold is a curious notion to me. It does force a bit of a rock paper scissors choice between heroes, population or systems, which the game could probably use.
As far as approval neutering goes, part of the issue may be that approval generating bonuses give SO MUCH approval. ...
The overpopulation thing though? I have to agree on that one; the fact that overpopulation is inevitable AND punishes approval can be a bit of a sticking point. The only justification I see for it is that it does force you to seek new worlds and find at least SOME approval bonuses to keep your pops productive, but I still have to wonder if that was the best way to do it...
Glad to see the Hero Threshold is of interest.
Regarding Approval and Overpopulation, my big issue with Overpopulation is that in my experience it's always very low. The highest I've ever seen was -30 Approval from Overpopulation, as opposed to Planet Type Disapproval which can really hurt sometimes. It's low of course because the game would grind to a halt if it were high, because we have no choice about whether we want to incur it.
If it were attached to some sort of planet-specific, repeatable population slot improvements, it would actually be optional, and thus could be a fair bit higher for each of those extra slots. Making Food the resource with which you pay for those extra slots would just be a nice way to fulfil my dreams of Food becoming the resource of straightforward vertical development again.
Yes, good observations overall. Approval, hero gameplay, and food management are by far the top things needs to get reworked.
I think some approval buildings should get nerfed for starters. Also, politics should be more concern for players to a point player not only think about which buildings in which order are needed, but have to do certain things just because of the political climate. This should start from the population traits because they are too forgiving. Anti...of something should really cause problems when a player does things against that population. Because they are still contributing to their anti-X political pool.
I think for population and food management luxury resources has to play a bigger role. In Endless Legend the player was more engaged with the luxury resources. It was allowing the player to skip many buildings and all part of a strategy. In ES2 however, I feel like I only use them a few times and mainly for selling them. I wished they are tied to food mechanics. E.G. player should design the farm buildings (just like system development) and has to pay certain upkeep(luxury resource) for that farm. This could introduce a big strategy. Maybe you can even target your opponents their upkeep luxury resource and try to starve their empire.
A soft Hero limit lock could be something and I think it can be tied to the politics as well. Idle hero gameplay can be useful for UC too. Maybe the senators can't be anyone but we have to appoint them? Maybe not only we need to get better senators to level up "better" laws? I dunno really but all of these heroes could use some gameplay attached to them and tied to politics.
I believe ES2 has enough new gameplay features (we even have espionage) and it's time to rework these current features and making them a new deal. Politics, approval, luxury resources, and hero gameplay are the top things what most of the people think, they are lacking behind right now. I think ES2 needs 1 or 2 DLC without putting a new major faction pressure and since we have only one major faction left (by looking the competitors limit) I say save it for later. Good ideas within the ES2 getting treated like an unfavored child and gets abandoned like politics.
IceGremlin
Scholar
God-Aristocrat Heroes: www.games2gether.com/endless-space-2/ideas/1105-academy-influence
IceGremlin
Scholar
26 600g2g ptsReport comment
Why do you report IceGremlin?
Are you sure you want to block IceGremlin ?
BlockCancelAre you sure you want to unblock IceGremlin ?
UnblockCancelVIPCyRob
Sentient Precursor Database in Disguise
I know a little about modding...
VIPCyRob
Sentient Precursor Database in Disguise
92 800g2g ptsReport comment
Why do you report CyRob?
Are you sure you want to block CyRob ?
BlockCancelAre you sure you want to unblock CyRob ?
UnblockCancelIceGremlin
Scholar
God-Aristocrat Heroes: www.games2gether.com/endless-space-2/ideas/1105-academy-influence
IceGremlin
Scholar
26 600g2g ptsReport comment
Why do you report IceGremlin?
Are you sure you want to block IceGremlin ?
BlockCancelAre you sure you want to unblock IceGremlin ?
UnblockCancelDaynen
Unique One
Daynen
Unique One
21 400g2g ptsReport comment
Why do you report Daynen?
Are you sure you want to block Daynen ?
BlockCancelAre you sure you want to unblock Daynen ?
UnblockCancelIceGremlin
Scholar
God-Aristocrat Heroes: www.games2gether.com/endless-space-2/ideas/1105-academy-influence
IceGremlin
Scholar
26 600g2g ptsReport comment
Why do you report IceGremlin?
Are you sure you want to block IceGremlin ?
BlockCancelAre you sure you want to unblock IceGremlin ?
UnblockCancelruzen
Dungeon Smart
ruzen
Dungeon Smart
26 200g2g ptsReport comment
Why do you report ruzen?
Are you sure you want to block ruzen ?
BlockCancelAre you sure you want to unblock ruzen ?
UnblockCancel