ENDLESS™ Space 2 is turn-based 4X space-strategy that launches players into the space colonization age of different civilizations within the ENDLESS™ Universe. Your Vision. Their Future.
Hello, guys! So, like in thread title i want to give you some information for thought about Stasis Singularity. It looks like very unbalanced.
- We have situation, when 1 tier 5 tech could destroy any of your opponents with really low resouce cost.
1. Extremely low cost for this effect (2500 - 3000 dust + 1 orich +1 quadri). Even with low resource abundance, like in this game, there is no problem to find some quadri and ori to use it. And 3k dust is not the problem in timing tier 5 science tech, for comparison in this save 1 hero 4 lvl will cost to you 13k Dust, or you could just see dust income in this game. Even if i cut 80% of my Dust income - there is no problem to use singularities.
2. Ultimative Destructive With this low cost it has a ultimate effect, which one has global range (!), 10 turns duration (!), and could be canceled for open slot to another Stasis, when it needs (!). Just imagine this value - for 1 ori and 1 quadri you block ANYsystem of your opponent. And 6 slots give you option to block entire empire. For example, in this save most powerfull empires has 12 systems, and option to block 6 systems makes impossible competitive game at all.
3. Side effect +10% science income per singularity is really good effect, which i would use with this cost, even without stasis effect :D
We can compare this Stasis mechanic with Obliterator mechanic, because both mechanics used to full controll enemy system. We can compare this instruments because timing between them like 15-18 turns in competitive play, with medium speed settings. But Obliterator must be constructed, armed (resourses for shot) and way of projectile takes time. So, with all this conditions Stasis and Oblitirator will do effect at the same time,but just imagine this:
stasis with multiple uses costs less then obliterator (to disrupt 1 system with all orbiting fleet for 100 turns you need only 25k-30k Dust +10 Ori + 10 Quadri)
stasis has no counter, like citadel shield for obliterator
stasis trapped fleets (like in 90% situations you cannot snipe fleets with obliterator, because vision, scouting and zone of influence)
stasis can be logistic disruptive instrument, in difference with obliterator (you can block key nods to block the way through them, forcing enemy use warp mechanic and extremely slow his advance, unless he has no conceptual heroes with warp speed multiplicator)
stasis has multiple stacks, up to 6 which one could be used at ONE TIME (so, no one on map couldnt resist it)
stasis gives you passive value with stackable bonus of science. Obliterator has approval debuff and you need sacrifice your tempo to build it (because you could spend your industrial to system improvements instead of build obliterator)
stasis can be used to defence your systems, so obliterator is not
stasis almost impossible to scout (obliterator could be scouted with probes or just scout ships. Stasis could be scouted only with sleeper in system and you have only 1 turn to react :D)
I really like this mechanic for Riftborns concept, and i think it must be in game, but must be nerfed with one or multiple options, like this:
limitation of max capacity of stasis singularities to 1 or 2
give instrument to destroy singularities (something like pirate mark buyout maybe, or give to singularities durability value, which could be sieged. And this durability value could be variative to different types of singularity, or singularities could loss their durability with turns, makes it easier to destroy with every turn. Same with Stasis singularity, when fleets in stasis trap could use siege mechanic to break throught stasis)
increase cost of stasis with every next stasis extremelly and increase cost at all
give a mechanic progressive stasis effect (For example it could be effect, which one gives stackable -10% FIDSI every turn and when it grows to 100% penalty system fall in full stasis to 3-5 turns or something like this)
Save file with full of Stasis Singularities and "Base" behemoth in system Bellatrix, which you can upgrade to obliterator for tests/proof my words: Riftborns stasis test.sav
In the end i want to tell, what im not english native speaker, so i sorry about mistakes in my text, hope, devs understand all what i mean :P
And i want to know - will devs support game after Awakening DLC or all their forces will work on humankind? Because i want to write some threads more about ES2, but maybe there is no reason because this will be last patch
Thanks for your good games!
"Spread your gorgeous image across the stars, join Horatio" ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
I always thought these were OP, but I've never heard people complain about them. If I'm not mistaken, they dont require line of sight either - as long as you have the galaxy scouted, you can just drop one where ever you want. They are kept in check indirectly though - I might have this wrong, but doesnt the cost of all singularities increase each time you build any single one of them? You will be spamming the Compression Singularity since the early game, so by the time you hit Tier 5 Tech, they will start to get quiet prohibitive and there is an opportunity cost of cutting out your Compression Singularities.
Secondly, by the time you get to Tier 5 techs you are really honing your end game strategy and weaving in this technology side tracks you from what the Riftborn are really good at (Science/Wonder). I guess you could get it for military purposes, but I think its unnecessary.
It was so hard to get before, when it had a cost of tier 6 endless tech, so no one had time to even use it. Plus I remeber a nerf that Riftborn had only 3 singularity slots.
Now that they fixed the science cost and lifted slot resctrictions, it does seems OP.
But this is still a tier 5 tech, should we really dispute about it? On huge map with 8 players and beyond, paralizing 6 systems at once doesn't sound so beneficial. Stacking 6 stasis singularities was probably the reason why we got this uncalled nerf of 3 singularity slots total. And then again it's a tier 5 techs and most of them are OP in one way or another. Was this ever used against a human player by AI or another human?
Stasis was dead for two years, after several buffs and fixes now it's usable again, and if you break it back with badly thought balance, chances are it will remain dead forever. I'd rather not touch it, of it's OP only against a poor AI.
I always thought these were OP, but I've never heard people complain about them. If I'm not mistaken, they dont require line of sight either - as long as you have the galaxy scouted, you can just drop one where ever you want. They are kept in check indirectly though - I might have this wrong, but doesnt the cost of all singularities increase each time you build any single one of them? You will be spamming the Compression Singularity since the early game, so by the time you hit Tier 5 Tech, they will start to get quiet prohibitive and there is an opportunity cost of cutting out your Compression Singularities.
Yep singularities cost has scale +100 Dust per singularity :D you could imagine how low it is by info in paragraph 1, were i say, what i could cut 80% of my dust income and still be in comfortable situation to use Stasis)
And about win conditions - yes, main problem as i see its extremely good in all ways usage to win:
for science victory - +60% science on entire empire with opportunity to block enemy advance on your territory and take a time for ultimative tech or opportunity to block ANY attempt to construct wonder on whole map from another empire :D
for military victory - paralize key systems of your opponent to your military advance with fleets\industrial centers with fastest ship production\important resource deposits for good ship modules. And even if enemy has a great fleet and approach to fight you back, you cold just retreat or see, what enemy is coming and leave system before he is approach and place stasis to trap his fleet, which one coudnt change their way in warp and on node lines :D and stasis dont care how strong the enemy fleet, how much resources their cost, how fast their ships
for wonder victory - game has limitation to 1 wonder construction at the same time, so you need only 1 Comparisson singularity to system, where you construct wonder, and then same what was in science victory way - just take a time and block any attempt to race with wonder from enemy and catch big fleets\block key node systems to stop any advance
But this is still a tier 5 tech, should we really dispute about it? On huge map with 8 players and beyond, paralizing 6 systems at once doesn't sound so beneficial. Stacking 6 stasis singularities was probably the reason why we got this uncalled nerf of 3 singularity slots total. And then again it's a tier 5 techs and most of them are OP in one way or another. Was this ever used against a human player by AI or another human?
Stasis was dead for two years, after several buffs and fixes now it's usable again, and if you break it back with badly thought balance, chances are it will remain dead forever. I'd rather not touch it, of it's OP only against a poor AI.
Yea, just problem what this tech good in all ways, instead of 1 way like most of tier 5 tech, like i write in post above.
And i asked about upcoming patches in end of head post, i imagine what devs will be working on another project, and with competitive plays with friends we could regulate usage of stasis mechanics, so this is not critical problem (vodyani has a much bigger problem, i suppose), but if devs will do upcoming patches, i just wanted to give them argumented information for thinking with no blame :~>
You did great, I just don't want Riftborn to receive Hissho treatment without a proper public discussion.
Sophons can get 50% science for the whole or most of the game, while Riftborn need to reach stage 5 first and has access to tier 3 strategics. Juggernaut with ion wave can destroy (not just paralize) any fleet every 3 turns.
I believe singilarities are defining mechanic for Riftborn faction, and they should be free to use it so it feel relevant. Things like limiting to "one stasis at a time" would feel like gimmik, instead of like a legit tier 5 tech.
While I agree there is a possibility of exploits and it should be handled properly, we need more delicate solution that won't kill the fun or theme of the singularities. Riftborn is really well-designed faction from its theme to actual playstyle. So we have to take some time before applying downright nerf.
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