ENDLESS™ Space 2 is turn-based 4X space-strategy that launches players into the space colonization age of different civilizations within the ENDLESS™ Universe. Your Vision. Their Future.
Lore of Awakening - it's surprisingly uneven//Damage control thread //Mild to radical proposals//A cheeky attempt at megathread.
First of all, I might be wrong, but it seems like Slowhands's part in lore-creation was a-okay. Nakalim and expansion are surprisingly uneven.
What is lacking is execution that was outsourced. It's visible everywhere.
As someone's already said
auspiciousCuttlefish wrote:
With everyone complaining about the bugs in this update, the thing that really left me disapointed is the lack of quality. Aplitude games are ususally unbalanced and can be glithcy and unintuitive. But the amount of detail they put into world buidling is pretty substantial. So to see things like this and the typos really puts me off to an otherwise awesome update
I hereby present my questions about lore and some resolutions to troublesome parts of Awakening and minor quality of life enhancements of Default game:
1. Lore questions:
1.1. It's Marusia or Maruisa? A bug, nonetheless. First is Zolya-connected and a dimunitive of Maria, 2nd is quite in touch with her surname and dynasty name - Mapagna either of them being vaguely Italian(NakalimRenaissance armor aesthetics also supports it)I reckon the correct one is MARUISA. (UPDATE: It's Marusia donfirmed - link)
1.2. Are Nakalim a name of race? Some lore text are unclear, it seems (in quest blurbs) it's either a name of race or a title of their profession. “Nakalim Lords” are mentioned. In-gamecode they are known as TEMPLARS.
UPDATE: It seems not, they cannot find Mezan ie are not in any way related to other humanoids.
1.4. Are they all bronze-black-violet or/and albino-grey skinned. Art seems to suggest both. Why only queens(it’s a matriarchy) and priests are black, while soldiers and scientists are grey? There are castes?
1.5A. Why are they humanoids living on placeholder-Earth ie humans ie Mezari? They are obviously human in shape and are living on weird-Earth. Also their “desert” or “dust” world is full of water and green.Here’s a comparison.(LINK).
They don’t have a tech to colonize desert planets from the start, but they have tech to colonize ASH (tier 2). Maybe change their planet type to Ash - as it PERFECTLY fits their intro planet? Even the thumbnail looks like intro.
1.5B. Intro landscape seems to be a grey-barren desert.(picture link). is it Sotra(their homeworld)? Their world shouldn’t then be a grey wasteland then?
1.6. Clear bug from tutorial pic. Shouldn’t it be the Lost here? (edit: Endless also sort-of-work here, but it's, in my opinion, misleading)
1.7. Their main-quest feels really bland. it has no twists, little to no new lore, and ending is lackluster. I don't even remember their prize. Nothing changes for them, they stay exactly the same. Their quest, at least for me, is not exciting one bit.
1.8. Nakalim outro suggests, that this blurred shape in the background(behind ice) is a Lost yet it looks likea giant fish. Is it one of the losT? Why it is so seemingly random?
1.9. Why then NAKALIM sport ACADEMY heraldry, if they have learned of it from Isyander? This heraldry is everywhere, but their special secret super sigil, which is just a letter of their alphabet is nowhere to be foundIn other places it's saud that Nakalim colonized post-Endless systems, so they shouldve known of Academy, if they were so-widespread, as they claim. It's nonsense and shoddy work. source? [Isyander himself explicitedly tells us("whispers" lol), that the ENDLESS CREATED ACADEMY to atone for their crime of killing the LOST, at least some of them - wihich was reinforced by Virtual Endless hero already (Stellar Prisoner Quest?)]. Their icon on in-game art should be changed. [Update: Answered]
1.10 Is one of their heroes - Panako Nakatug: a trans character or is it an oversight? "He" has visible breasts. Is matriarchal society of Nakalim so extreme, that men change into women to achieve anything in life? Other ethic-Nakalim hero also is a woman, a warrior. Nothing wrong with it, as Lumeris also have a lesbian married couple, just asking. [NO ANSWER]
Update: Slowhands has answered some of the questions already.
2-6 PROPOSALS:
2. POPULATION
2.1 Dehumanize Nakalim. I know it's late. but not too late THERE’S A PRECEDENT, link to https://www.artstation.com/artwork/2x3lkJ and others pictured below. Approx 5-6 arts (leader and intro) would need to be edited in light mode or all (10 at most) in hard mode case. They is definitely too many humans in space and this weird-Earth, is just problematic and plain silly. They claim to be born there so well...it's either way very silly to have alien-humans on alien-weird-earth that somehow larp as lumpenegyptians with liberia vs humanitarian aid mentality, all the while enforcing caste system of pitchblacks ruling albinowhites. Turning themunambiguously nonhuman FIXES those PROBLEMS right away and makes them FEATURES.
Light mode edits: Nose not-visible, no ears(cartrilage), no external lips - as pictured in upper left and lower right. IMHO those 4 look definitely better than anything else.
Hard mode: more changes to make them less human. Elongating built(females already have long necks), removing breasts (weirdly many races have them), changing number of fingers and toes, removing toenails etc.
Light mode is quite easy and would take few hours tops, including changing intro.
2.2. Change this Earth-inspired monstrosity to remove water and maybe change world-status to ASH (they have tech). Aren’t they “planet reclamation” specialists, as they claim? Ash in-game lore states it's basically a post-greenhouse effect desert world. It's sterile as well, just like desert. A simple fix.
UPDATE: Proposal 2.2 is greenlighted! Details in a post below. It is done.
2.3. Xirmsala' i.e. space-goat oracles lore tab is misplaced and bloated. Whereas ALL minors have a short one (in population control screen) and a long one (when they are a minor-empire) - Xirmsala have one and the same. A simple fix.
2.4. Nakalim heraldry on in-game art should be changed. Why? Let me explain: NAKALIM sport ACADEMY heraldry, if they have learned of it from Isyander? This heraldry is everywhere, but their special secret super sigil, which is just a letter of their alphabet is nowhere to be foundIn other places it's saud that Nakalim colonized post-Endless systems, so they shouldve known of Academy, if they were so-widespread, as they claim. It's nonsense and shoddy work. source? [Isyander himself explicitedly tells us("whispers" lol), that the ENDLESS CREATED ACADEMY to atone for their crime of killing the LOST, at least some of them - wihich was reinforced by Virtual Endless hero already (Stellar Prisoner Quest?)]. Connected with 2.1 ,so 2 birds-1 stone.
Update: Question answered - Nakalim are pretty much an allied faction to academy, and subservient at that.
2.5 Change their Population Screen from LEFT to RIGHT IMAGE - their specialty and homeworld is a dry, arid and desert place. Not London. They are full of hope not grim gloom resignation. also, it's raining on their parade. Prgmatically: their in-game one is unreadable.[NO FURTHER DATA]
Release: Original:
3. Game mechanics: Awakening, Nakalim, Academy
3.1. Temple mechanics
3.1a You should be able to sell your own system to Academy. Connected with 3.13
3.1b. Temple could influence planets that are unclaimed and then make them able to cede them to Academy. Connected with 3.1a and 3.2
3.1c. Why I can only have 1 temple of each type? (and only 10%) In-game text suggests I can invest more.
3.1d. Conversion (forced) during war could be possible, but at a much higher price. Might be OP.
3.1e. Temples have definitely too little of influence-generation potential - there are better alternatives than using Temples. Why not buff their bubble-spread? ( https://www.games2gether.com/amplitude-studios/endless-space-2/forums/66-game-design/threads/34583-power-of-influence-circle?page=1#post-287308 and https://www.games2gether.com/amplitude-studios/endless-space-2/forums/66-game-design/threads/34583-power-of-influence-circle?page=1#post-287119 )
3.1f. Temples mechanics are unreadable. What Cathedral Improvement does? If I have Temples on all my planets in a system and they show 0(0% of resources), as they should, why do I have any numbers other than zero on my system? What's purpose of that. Cathedral should be like 3% of Resources and show that in-game(and in system-stats), but I still see 0s.
3.4. Relics feel underpowered in heroes' hands. Those bonuses seem too small for a price of sacrificing their precious relics. Why cannot I stack relics? There's a finite amount of them, so OP is unlikely.
4.1. Librarian lore-questions and their answers are lackluster. Not only are them few, that are inane. Horatio one is tongue-in-cheek, a-ok, but others? Pictures mine: . Questions and answers are generally so-so. I appreciate that there was an attempt.There should be great many randomized questions with NEW LORE, even minor. If not, remove this function.
4.2. Librarian o should be give all information for free. I've paid already much to academy, this is a double taxation.
4.3. Librarian could grant an access to a random technology/ies. This would help Nakalim that even with 20 Relics are slow.
4.4. Librarian and/or Treasurer could give Nakalim 5-10 relics. Hissho could get a ***number*** of keii, Umbrail Choir more badwitch etc. Race based optional-bonuses.
4.5. Divide roles of Librarian and Spymaster - Librarian keeps tech/lore, Spymaster keeps techs and has fully-cloacked special-ship.
4.6. Grants from Teasury-role -. Why not use them for tech?
4.7. Add possibility to rename Roles(in togglable menu) - I think one of devs talked about it - I don't want Spear of Isyander. I want Grand Admiral, not something out-of-place and tacky.
5. ACADEMY - DEALING WITH ACADEMY
5.1. Add possibility to take Academy and rule it. This would give you all heroes to pick one (from a catalogue of all available Heroes, not just a rooster of 3 from on normal basis. I think one dev talked about - "you will find out who is in charge if you take it teehee".
5.2. Academy fleets should not spawn if Academy is crippled or non-existant. It's bothersome to a fullblown fight crusade of undying ships each turn. Captured Isyander ie captured Academy SHOULD NOT commander and issue roles.
5.3. It's laughable that you cannot capture their ships. Capturing a ship causes its' instanteous respawn.
5.4. NAKALIM SPECIFIC If Nakalim are rediscovered by the Academy shouldn't they start with Academy known? Excluding them from search for the academy (and they would have a headstart during negotiations and 20 turns for others to catch up) is worth consideration.
5.5. VODYANI SPECIFIC Vodyani quest of subjugating Academy cannot be completed - as Academy cannot be razed. (Update: It's being worked on)
Some of these, minor edits, might have been already added. Will try to cross those ones, but I doubt.
6.12. Ability to see FULL animated portraits of your (and other) heroes and leaders, at all times - not only seeing an extended view during a "you have an unassigned hero" and similar popups.
Updated 5 years ago.
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3.1a Temples mechanics are unreadable. What Cathedral Improvement does? If I have Temples on all my planets in a system and they show 0(0% of resources), as they should, why do I have any numbers other than zero on my system? What's purpose of that. Cathedral should be like 3% of Resources and show that in-game(and in system-stats), but I still see 0s.
What does the cathedral improvement *do, you ask?
It adds 3% FIDSI to system output per temple on empire, AFAIK.
The values are different from 0, because you have improvements that produce values regardles of planet pop and pop still needs to eat which usually leads to negative food in such scenarios.
Create separate threads, who wants to read 30 page mega-thread, tl:dr
3.1a Temples mechanics are unreadable. What Cathedral Improvement does? If I have Temples on all my planets in a system and they show 0(0% of resources), as they should, why do I have any numbers other than zero on my system? What's purpose of that. Cathedral should be like 3% of Resources and show that in-game(and in system-stats), but I still see 0s.
What does the cathedral improvement *do, you ask?
It adds 3% FIDSI to system output per temple on empire, AFAIK.
The values are different from 0, because you have improvements that produce values regardles of planet pop and pop still needs to eat which usually leads to negative food in such scenarios.
Create separate threads, who wants to read 30 page mega-thread, tl:dr
Well, I could've create 15 threads or I've created 1 and I try to update it. This Expansion is a really shoddy work. A passing mod can answer all/some questions. I don't exclude splitting this thread, but right now I'm combinig all issues that I can find, that don't straight up belong in bug thread.
Keimpe wrote:
koxsos wrote:
3.1a Temples mechanics are unreadable. What Cathedral Improvement does? If I have Temples on all my planets in a system and they show 0(0% of resources), as they should, why do I have any numbers other than zero on my system? What's purpose of that. Cathedral should be like 3% of Resources and show that in-game(and in system-stats), but I still see 0s.
What does the cathedral improvement *do, you ask?
It adds 3% FIDSI to system output per temple on empire, AFAIK.
The values are different from 0, because you have improvements that produce values regardles of planet pop and pop still needs to eat which usually leads to negative food in such scenarios.
Create separate threads, who wants to read 30 page mega-thread, tl:dr
Agreed
I don't understand. If planets(all) output is 0, why system has any output visible and present? It's a nonsense. What's the purpose then? This sytem would be of no value still - if it's 3% more of FIDSI in 0% FIDSI system, as a system outcome is only a sum of all planets inputs.. If they are 0s, then system output should be let's say 5*0.
Updated 5 years ago.
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Uh, yeah... thanks for the outpouring of impassioned feelings! There are some good points here, and we will address them in various posts and patches.
First off, I’d like to clear up a some of confusion that I as the lore person let develop:
1. Yes, the name is MARUSIA. We’ll fix that.
2. Nakalim is the name of the faction. Race is less of an issue for them; like the late Roman Empire, they are a mix of innumerable other peoples. Also, to clarify, the Nakalim Lords is the parliamentary council that advises the monarchy. They haven’t really had a Magna Carta moment yet...
3. Noooooooo, the Endless had nothing whatsoever to do with the Academy! They were gone before it was founded (by Isyander). Please point me to a place in the lore if you find one that says otherwise!
The Nakalim show a lot of Academy heraldry because they are 100% on board with Isyander’s plan to bring the Lost back. They view him as a prophet and ally, which is why the gameplay ties the Nakalim so closely to the Academy.
4. Because they developed in a galaxy that had recently been tamed by the Endless, they were able to take advantage of existing infrastructure and improvements. It’s would be like a medieval age in Europe, but where there are Roman acqueducts, baths, sewers, roads, and ports everywhere.
However, the Lost that guided them made them less reliant on discovering the roots of the Endless technology and its scientific principles. So there was a double effect: the pre-developed galaxy AND the lack of scientific research. For that reason, their growth was relatively easy, but once the momentum of their civilization slowed and stopped they regressed rapidly as well.
Unfortunately, this does not come through in the texts so I’ll get in there and clean them up.
5. We are working on the planet type and the harmonization of the art. Yes, we need to change some art and/or texts there; we let some incoherencies slide. My bad.
Uh, yeah... thanks for the outpouring of impassioned feelings! There are some good points here, and we will address them in various posts and patches.
First off, I’d like to clear up a some of confusion that I as the lore person let develop:
1. Yes, the name is MARUSIA. We’ll fix that.
2. Nakalim is the name of the faction. Race is less of an issue for them; like the late Roman Empire, they are a mix of innumerable other peoples. Also, to clarify, the Nakalim Lords is the parliamentary council that advises the monarchy. They haven’t really had a Magna Carta moment yet...
3. Noooooooo, the Endless had nothing whatsoever to do with the Academy! They were gone before it was founded (by Isyander). Please point me to a place in the lore if you find one that says otherwise!
The Nakalim show a lot of Academy heraldry because they are 100% on board with Isyander’s plan to bring the Lost back. They view him as a prophet and ally, which is why the gameplay ties the Nakalim so closely to the Academy.
4. Because they developed in a galaxy that had recently been tamed by the Endless, they were able to take advantage of existing infrastructure and improvements. It’s would be like a medieval age in Europe, but where there are Roman acqueducts, baths, sewers, roads, and ports everywhere.
However, the Lost that guided them made them less reliant on discovering the roots of the Endless technology and its scientific principles. So there was a double effect: the pre-developed galaxy AND the lack of scientific research. For that reason, their growth was relatively easy, but once the momentum of their civilization slowed and stopped they regressed rapidly as well.
Unfortunately, this does not come through in the texts so I’ll get in there and clean them up.
5. We are working on the planet type and the harmonization of the art. Yes, we need to change some art and/or texts there; we let some incoherencies slide. My bad.
More to come....
-Slow
It's wonderful to have some answers! Thank you for arriving and spilling some beans and doing that with style. Proviso, all time I say human i mean Second World humans ie. descendads of Mezari, as you stated in one place.
1. Marusia seems quite silly for "Slavic" speakers, but okay :)
2. If Nakalim are a faction, not a race - why 100% (sans 2 explicidly stated to be foreigners and Heroes not randoms at that) of art shows them to be an exclusively human-based society? Scientists, warriors, priests, serfs, crowds and royalty - all human!
As I included in my damage control theory - one can guess humans dominated culturally all others, but also outbred them into extinction? I highly doubt that to be honest. It needs a lot of strawmaning to be viable.
Changing them into Alien Rome would simplify things a lot and makes them exotic at once. Another race of humanoids is easier to digest if it isn't anther race or faction of humanity. Currently Nakalim would be functionally 4/12 (1/3 of all ) human major race, with at least 2 minor splinter groups (up to 4) existing.
I've even went on a limb and made a thread about it, with a majority of a small group of poolers mostly agreeing for making them different from humans. It's worth a try, I guess.
Also their connection to Mezan is a valid question:
As Sombra is stated to be pretty much the place where they have evolved as a species -- what's the place of Mezan in this? One can asume again, it's a figure of speech for a birth of culture, but how long one man can strawman things? :D
Chronology is kinda wonky - Mezari were a developed and working society by the time of Endless (Grey Owl lore) - and one can assume that all humans identified as such, given that all groups currently known(be it Collective, Vaulters, UE) have a strong foundation myth, strong ties(Pilgrims are closer to Vaulters than Nakalim)- with Vaulters being moreover descendants of firstwave colonists. After all this time, they remember Mezan and are pretty much the same, not undergoing some 180degrees shift that erased their names, language, and history.\
(...) Officially, the Endless Universe is what is referrred to as a "Second World" setting; Earth does not exist in the timeline.(...)
- The Mezari civilization has been around a long time (though not as old as the Endless), but its history is full of erratic ups and downs (civil war, invasion, over-expansion, etc.) so it never gained the power of the Endless. (...)
(...) - The Mezari are the root of all spacefaring humanoid races in the galaxy. I use "spacefaring" to distinguish them from those native to Auriga (ed. mine - that are speculated to be Endless-derivative)
(...) - To clarify the Mezan / Raian question:
The ancestral origin of all spacefaring ES2 humanoid races is indeed Mezan. However, there were several major exoduses... exodusses... exodi... whatever. The Vaulters were part of an earlier one, and the UE part of a later one.(...)
Given those into consideration I stand by my guns, as of now. Making Nakalim Aliens and changing their features acordingly would literally cut all murmuring on the spot forever.
3. Here's a part and you are right.
Well, I connected it with Virtual Hero of Stellar Prisoner quest. It speaks of a Tabernacle (of Remorse) that Vodyani call Tabernacle of Lies.
With its faith in science and society ruined by the butchery at the Lodestones, Tiaych was one of the renegade Endless who created the Tabernacle of Remorse in order to warn future civilizations of their errors. After completing that monument it drifted for ages, an inconsolable and indifferent ship-borne mind in a vast galaxy. It was indifferent to life or death until, centuries later, the ship systems failed and it was captured by the gravitational field of a neutron star. While it was content to study the star for several millennia, Tiaych has over time regained its sense of purpose and now desires to be free of its electromagnetic prison. Should a starfaring civilization come to its rescue, it would be more than happy to assist them as thanks.
I guess Tabernacle (of X) is just a Vodyani-Virtual name for a Temple. Ths spawns another question: why decorate Academy with statues of the Endless, if one hates them?
4. Source
I guess they leeched both Sombra AND the Endless and still failed majestically. One could get a message they were uplifted by the Endless and were their scions from this fragment.
4. Good to hear. I guess they survived also in other places then or only in the royal vault of Sombra?
5. Ok, fair enough.
Extra:
6. What's the matter with the Nakalim's outro/victory video? It seems, at least for me, to be utterly random and out of blue to see a [redacted] alive and swimmingly well.
7. Is one of Nakalim heroes a transmale? othing wrong with that, with all small and large bugss, oversights one could have snuck in.
8. If Nakalim are rediscovered by the Academy shouldn't they start with Academy known? Excluding them from search for the academy (and they would have a headstart during negotiations and 20 turns for others to catch up) is worth consideration.
9. Also, what's the meaning of "Nakalim"? Any connection to IRL things?
Again, many thanks for showing up.
Updated 5 years ago.
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8. If Nakalim are rediscovered by the Academy shouldn't they start with Academy known? Excluding them from search for the academy (and they would have a headstart during negotiations and 20 turns for others to catch up) is worth consideration.
I think I can answer that question. If you take a close look at opening, you can spot the fact that Isyander's cloth is black-colored.
Which implies that it's quite a long before the Isyander found the Academy. Because, as you can see from Pathfinder trailer, Isyander's cloth is white colored.
If I remember correctly, Isyander painted its cloth white when he leaved Vodyani society and started its campaign for penance.
I guess Tabernacle (of X) is just a Vodyani-Virtual name for a Temple. Ths spawns another question: why decorate Academy with statues of the Endless, if one hates them?
What if Isyander didn't outright hate Endless. He might've built the Academy, then discovered ultimate truth about Lost and Endless, and then was captured by Isyara, if Endless Space Stories: Heresy took place after Nakalim prologue. Or figures in Academy depict Concrete Endless, who might not be guilty of harvesting Lost (in same comic Isyander specifically mentions "The Virtuals' Relics"), and Concretes were enemies to Virtuals.
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