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Nakalim are basically better Lumeris, change my mind!

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5 years ago
Oct 1, 2019, 8:37:49 PM

What can Nakalim do better:

  • Can close to instantly colonize planets just like everyone else, but faster, colonizer buyout available at turn 1 is the same price if not cheaper than lumeris planet pruchase @fast, the price scales with inflation, but it does not exactly double every time.
  • Produces more dust than Lumeris provided they run the law + have turn 1 access to markets AND buyouts, which are not meant to be utilized at T1, they actually scale better at later turns.
  • Produces more influence than Lumeris (preview temples are lol)
  • Will steadily produce more science than Lumeris provided they complete quests with zero sidetracking such as probing curiosities and leveling up a hero. Only exception to this is if Lumeris find bluecap mold, then anyone would probably outproduce nakalim. Important point: there is 0 industrial investment into science production in the early game. Scientific behemoth later does certainly count. But you still get unconditional 150 science in 5 turns.
  • Do not have affinities connected to now obsolete and unused trade routes and trade companies, which again have to be researched, and built.
  • Have a strong head start opening which they either utilize to win, or become just a race with super high FIDI output.
  • Have unique mechanic which also includes forgoing system ownership, but instead they get it to count towards conquest + get cut of the output + permanent science output/utility boost in form of relics (you get for example 4 relics, that's 200 science output).
  • Can convert hero to +40% dmg/hp on fleet given they have at least 8 relics at will, and then undo the relics assignment and retain 400 science again next turn.

Lumeris:

  • Still get trade routes blockaded at 50 pop.
  • Dig their own grave through inflation, but not so much anymore, provided they waste industry into trade companies.
  • Rely on dust to bribe, colonize, buyout (to keep up) and upgrade trading companies, if they were to be useful. (while other races have industry to colonize, influence to bribe, and have all the dust left for buyouts, cause they can ignore trading companies, so can Lumeris though)
  • Can give away planets and outpousts outside of war (everyone else can only do so at war)
  • Can be utilized for a head start opening with all the buyouts and selling, but then any other faction can do this, and many actually do it a lot better.
  • Can colonize at range without a colonizer - this is handy, it feels great, but does not exactly win the games on its own. Also it remains expensive. (but can pay for itself, sure)
  • has decent combat scouts, but so do nakalim, cravers, horatio...
  • do not really have much in the way of endgame staying power, since they have no combat bonuses at all.
  • I think they were meant to be THE trading and buyout race, but many factions still do it better.
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5 years ago
Oct 1, 2019, 9:46:33 PM

I wish that the buyout mechanic improvements within the game made more sense in general. It could then be boosted and expanded upon properly to be a main mechanic for the Lumeris.


Currently, the buyout improvement buildings/technology are simply not worth building/researching (largely because they are tied to a per pop dust output that doesn't warrant their research/construction). They are not worth the opportunity cost in science and industry (you will get better returns of FIDSI researching/building other things). And the Tier 5 buyout improvement (MXBA) really baffles me - why research and buid something to improve your buyout capabilities on a mature system that would have already built everything (yeah, other than ships, but meh).


Buyout improvements should function on an Empire level, not a System level (and be balanced accordingly). It makes no sense to build buyout system improvements (that require a lot of Industry) so that you can start using Dust to build whats left over - if you already have the Industry, you don't need the help of Dust. It's so backwards.



Updated 5 years ago.
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5 years ago
Oct 2, 2019, 5:19:20 AM

Out of all the FIDSI - Dust is the weakest (Now that I think of it, its kind of funny because the lore is all about Dust).


Industry is KING and Science is Queen. They kind of go hand in hand, but Industry is supreme. The reason is because you can solve any problem in the game with Industry/Science. He who has more Industry/Science wins. And they act like a snow ball rolling downhill; exponentially building momentum. Hence, the incredible advantage that Riftborn has - they are focused around Industry and Science. (My personal favorite faction btw).


So you like Lumeris, but the problem is they are focused around Dust - the weakest of the FIDSI. Dust is a resource that you only care about having enough of so that you are not in the red. All the Dust producing buildings/research are, as an opportunity cost, inefficient. What I mean by this is, if you take the amount of FIDSI a given construction will produce upon completion, and divide it by its Industry to build, you will get a ratio of FIDSI to industry - there is a little more to it than that, but if you compare these buildings to other constructible items, they are incredibly lack luster (several of the food constructions are as well btw). So its already disadvantageous to build them ON TOP OF the fact that Dust is the weakest of the FIDSI - you should have been focused on Industry and Science. He who has more FIDSI than the other poor schmuck wins - and you (not you directly, but "you" generally) wasted your time inefficiently increasing the weakest one.


If a faction is built around Dust, it better have some incredible things it can do with it. Unfortunately, its kind of not so for Lumeris, other than the cool ability to colonize systems with dust and (sort of cool) interact with Minor Factions with it. Inflation heavily works against it (the only FIDSI in the game that depreciates in value! LOLZ), the buyout mechanic is wonky and backwards and furthermore not bolstered for the Lumeris, there are a variety of ways for any factions to quickly get Dust when they need it, Trade Companies are cool but they are too risky an investment for too little return, and to top it all off - the Economic Victory condition is way out of tune with the speed of the other victory conditions.

Updated 5 years ago.
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5 years ago
Oct 2, 2019, 9:22:19 AM
dustwhit wrote:

I wish that the buyout mechanic improvements within the game made more sense in general. It could then be boosted and expanded upon properly to be a main mechanic for the Lumeris.

Remember when sheredyn had a -40% buyout costs affinity? I think it might be on track.

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5 years ago
Oct 2, 2019, 2:13:36 PM

Lumeris:

  • Can give away planets and outpousts outside of war (everyone else can only do so at war)

I feel that the Lumeris needs a buff so that trading outposts is actually worth something, especially because of the Nakalim's ability to technically "trade" systems with the Academy.


My understanding was that besides their obsession for dust, the Lumeris' whole mafia-ish society is what allows them to use dust in ways other factions couldn't. You can't spell "Everything is tradable for DUST" without "Everything IS tradable". So it bothers me that the Lumeris can't trade outposts or systems with the Academy when the Nakalim obviously can. I mean sure, the Nakalim have very little flexibility, but in this case, the Lumeris have NO flexibility. Plus, the Nakalim's system giveaways actually has practicality.


I would love it if the Lumeris could get more options with their outposts. Having something the Nakalim can trade that the Lumeris can't really kills their vibe for me.



(EDIT) PS: I didn't know there was a post literally titled "WHY SELLING OUTPOSTS IS SO UNPOPULAR" below this one haha

Updated 5 years ago.
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