Hi guys!


Thanks a lot for your posts!
I am a bit in a rush myself these days but I want to write a proper reply, so just letting you know that I am still alive, and will post at the beginning of the next week : )

Until then, have a great week-end everyone!

Æyl

Good luck with whatever's got you in a rush, Aeyl!

Hi guys!

Thanks Frogsquadron! From what I hear I did a good job so I am happy : ) And now I can finally breath a bit so here I am!

Now off to the little topics on which I wanted to give some input!

@VonRaesyr: Concerning experience points no one would be left behind, actually that is precisely what I want to avoid. But I realize that a concrete explanation would make things a bit clearer : )

Let’s say that during a session, the group decided to organize a heist so they could help one of the PCs get back a stolen family heirloom. This is a side narrative arc (the main one would be resolved completely independently from this) and the whole party decided to act together to achieve this. At the end of the session, all PCs would receive the 5 base XP plus, let’s say, 3 for the extra project they worked on. Everyone is rewarded, no one is left behind : )

It actually even goes a step further as the PC of an absent player will also get the experience points as well.

@ everyone: We exchanged a few messages with Khorothis and Ectheldir about the proposal I made to contact me prior to a game session if you wanted some extra game bits, and the obvious emerged : )

I am still wondering how but I will definitely make an early demo kit of some sort for those who want to play/test/master the game out. It will be the equivalent of an alpha build but there would be a 1-2 hour long short scenario with a set of enough relevant rules to play it. This way game masters who want to participate will have less work to put in, it will be more structured and easier to provide feedback on.

Let me know if there is something else you would absolutely want to see in this kit! Maybe some artworks, short ambient texts, a proto OST… ?

 
Speaking about the rules, here are some feedbacks:

The uses for 1s, 2s and 3s are a WIP but what VonRaesyr mentioned is indeed completely fair game : )

I am glad you like the social system approach! Globally we agree on the principle so I will keep iterating from this point on, the only part where the tastes diverge being on the number of skills involved. Honestly it is no biggie and since I can work with it, I will decide on this a bit later down the development process.

And I am super glad too about how you like the vehicle combat! Can’t wait to have more live feedbacks than my own : )

You guys mentioned having more functions than one being operated by a single PC through AI, implants or dust enhancement. Well I have you covered! Actually it is possible and the way I handle it so far during tests is by having these operating options give a basic skill score, usually something very basic so a piloting PC would quickly be better. For instance let us take that famous Vodyani hovertank, it would have an assistant AI which could give a base pool of 4 dice on each unmanned function. I also tried the implanted pilot which could man two functions with one dice roll and other variants, it works nicely. An important concern quickly rises though, and you guys said it, it is that it can quickly unbalance the power scales between PCs if not everyone can take part in the vehicle adventure, or if the vehicles are a trivial part of the scenario when a PC heavily invested in her piloting skills and gear. But I believe that we are clearly entering game master territory here.

And last but not least, the boss/elite mechanics. Rereading my post and your reactions it is clear that I, well, wasn’t clear enough : )

I made this defense design for overwhelming encounters but I ended up using it for everyone, including the PCs. The idea behind this is to have a single system, hopefully richer than the previous one, which would work for every case and be more effective for larger than life encounters, which are bound to happen quite a lot in this setting : )

Still, even if I like it a lot so far I want to do more testing, and given the fact that your concerns mainly came from the fact that it was presented as an additional “boss” system instead of the default one, I will give it a bit more time to listen to you guys if you feel it differently in light of this.

Oh and before I lift off, I never played FreeSpace (and from the looks of it I definitely will!) Khorothis but I am pretty familiar with the MechCommander/Warrior : ) 

Aaaand I guess that’s it for this post! My next move is to update the shared doc as cleanly as possible with all this and start working on this early demo kit.

See you all pretty soon!

Æyl

A playable demo? Nice, nice... what's this? Artwork? "Proto OST"? Dude, there's no need for setting-lube yet, let's get the rules straightened out first.

Yeah, it's the GMs job to give every PC a job in a game. You don't send your PCs into a narrow tunnel network when they've all specced into mounted combat. Good GMing is like  cooking, you make a dish out of the ingredients you have, rather than start cooking a specific dish and hope you have the ingredients for it.

Boss/elite calibre opponents are best when made using the same rules accessible for PCs (given the resources/opportunity). It helps balancing the game as well, since if the PCs find a ridiculously powerful build they won't get all smug and get away with it because they'll know that their opponents could be built the exact same way. I'm curious what you've concocted.

I'm glad I could share the unshackled awesomeness that is FreeSpace (it's ancient but GOG has it, that should work). Its OST is also amazing.

I'm really looking forward to the demo kit! Just keep it straightforward, focus on the rules, don't get bogged up in making it accessible. We need to understand your vision and thoughts first before we can start shaving it to make it easier to handle.

Sounds wonderfull! But, I totally agree with Korothis here. Stick to the stuff relevant for playing first and leave extra titbits like artwork and OST for later. If needed there also are a bunch of artworks in the endless games which everyone can use for now.

Also, you do realize, that you need to include the possibility for players to steal a Vodyani hovertank, if you use this example so often. :) 

Talking about the "boss-mechanics", shields for, for example the Vodyani, sound pretty cool. These cloths gotta be good for something.

Hi guys!

I hope you all are enjoying your summer time!

I have wanted to post a few weeks earlier but my life’s a rolercoaster at the moment, a good one, but sill : )

At any rate, if I have been a bit silent here, I also have been working on the game nonetheless so here are the news!

* I have been testing and toying with different kinds of dust powers. It is a bit harder than I thought but I am getting there. Actually I just think I went a bit too big and should make a smaller batch to start with. I will let you know as soon as I have something solid.

* While testing space travels and exploration, which is a cornerstone of the experience, I found out that the rules worked but… That was just it, they simply worked, they didn’t particularly nail it. So I started working on exploration specific mechanics, I know other games such as Ryuutama, Oltrée or Pathfinder 2 feature that so I have a few research entry points. 

* Likewise, I worked on the warfare aspect, it took me a bit of time to put the finger on what I wanted but I think I found it. It actually is so simple it feels dumb to write it down but… Anyways! I wanted to keep the strategy aspect of the game but having the characters at the top of the command ladder rarely felt great. The victories and losses were very intellectual and these “general/commander” status often prevented the PCs from joining the actual fight… Only experiencing the visceral intensity of combat is also what I wanted. So in the end I decided to stick to my guns and put the PCs in a Goldilocks rank, that of the “Vanguards” I state in my pitch, where they are in the thick of it but still bear responsibilities, usually being at the head of a unit and such.

(By the Losts it feels so dumb sometimes, working hours on end, only to conclude on so simple a solution >.<)

This heavily shapes the larger scale fights. Basically there will be a mass combat setup where PCs will be in charge of units. Two phases, a macro one where PCs have to manage the strategy aspect (“Yes, I do break formation to flank the basterdz!” or “The Daimyo said we hold. We hold.”) and a micro one where they do, well what heroes do (“I duel her and her whole guard!” or “I will slow them down.”)

* I also did quite a bit of testing on stats balance: health levels, armor protection, weapon/power damage etc. Ultimately I would love to add a modding/customization mechanic for weapons and armors, so far it seems doable, I just need to remember to start small : )

* And last but not least, at this point I need a lot of testing and tweaking and it turns out that relatively close to where I live is the French National Game Center (a huuuge game library of 1 600m²!). I work with them from time to time and they agreed when I asked if I could master test game sessions there, about once a month. Which means that it will have to nail this demo scenario we’ve talked about last time sooner than later : )

There you have it! Got to go now, my birthday’s tomorrow and I still have a few surprises to prepare for my friends : )

Anyway I am glad I came by, I’ve missed this! See you all soon and until then, don’t behave too much! :P

 Æyl

Hsppy belated birthday!

Good to see you again, man, it's been a while!

The fun in exploration happens in the head, not on a sheet. You can give the GM guidelines but it's up to them to know their players and pull their strings - that's the whole point in entertainment, and at the end of the day, the GM is an entertainer. Just focus on the tools and the occasional advice, don't get entangled in trying to create an assembly line of fun. GMing is a skill, one of those where there's a lot more to learn than one could teach, and even then it's like stand-up comedians, where you have wildly different guys like George Carlin and Robin Williams, both of whom were great at their craft but they applied said craft in incomparable ways.

I apologise in advance if my allergy to the feverishly popular hero worship going on these days come through in my words. I think that it is better to create mechanics based on what situations we expect the PCs to end up in, rather than making them heroes from the get-go and then setting up mechanics where the NPC audience can cheer at the output of their character sheets. So if they end up in the high levels of command, let them experience the cold inhumanity of casuality statistics, let them fall into the trap of arithmetic. If they lead a squad, let them lead them into battle and write letters to their next of kin afterwards. If they are the grunts, let them follow orders that may or may not make sense, or may or may not be suicidal, and prevail against all odds, even if it means getting stuck behind enemy lines. You're not writing a book, you're writing a manual on the assembly of a printing press.
-> My more practically worded recommendation would be to focus on traditional levels of RPG combat first, then make a splatbook about larger scale combat and war once the core rulebook is rock solid. You can only ride one horse with one ass.

You'll inevitably need the help of a mathemagician, unless you're one yourself. Without being one, you can only get the principles right; after that it's all about aligning the numbers until they form a clear and concise constellation (and even then you need to be in a general area for the perspective to work). I'd start looking for one soon. Or a veteran rules lawyer with a thing for numbers.

I can't speak in my group's name but I'll happily go through that demo scenario like a boar through the soil after a heavy rain. :D

And happy belated birthday! I hope it was fun!

Just a headsup: I have finally moved this thread into the ES2 Creations section, as that is the setting for this project.

Thanks for your messages guys! Yes last week was a blast! : )

Concerning the character power levels, I gave it quite a lot of thoughts (and testing >.<) and my conclusion is that for this game, I definitely want to avoid starting powerhouses.

At the same time, most of my projections were made with relatively skilled characters, a lil’ bit above the rank and file. Usually because with higher ranks they have a bit more leeway and interesting choices than strict order following.

Also, for those who want to tune the power level down, starting from this middle ground is easier than doing a split from the dust god power tier.

See you all soon!

Æyl 

hey! I havent been able to read this entire thread yet and im still very new to the games and world of Endless Space. however, im a huge fan of Dungeons & Dragons and naturally went searching for a variant set in ths endless universe.

it is super awesome that you are building a system from the ground up! however, I was planning on using the Genesys system by FFG as it is a universal system that focuses a lot on narrative, and is also the same system used in their Star Wars tabeltop rpg, meaning I might be able to reskin content from those sourcebooks.

what do you think? I am still beyond excited to see what unique and creative game you come up with 

Daeorus wrote:

hey! I havent been able to read this entire thread yet and im still very new to the games and world of Endless Space. however, im a huge fan of Dungeons & Dragons and naturally went searching for a variant set in ths endless universe.

it is super awesome that you are building a system from the ground up! however, I was planning on using the Genesys system by FFG as it is a universal system that focuses a lot on narrative, and is also the same system used in their Star Wars tabeltop rpg, meaning I might be able to reskin content from those sourcebooks.

what do you think? I am still beyond excited to see what unique and creative game you come up with 

If you finish your system please post it! I like narrative focus and force powers could be reworked into dust abilties easily. I think its important for tabletop gamers to have lots of options available so they can get the best system for their group. 

Hi guys!

Got a few things to share with you, so let’s get started!

For starters, sorry about the recent delays in my com with you. But more than presenting an apology I want to tell you why it has been so.

Simply put, it’s work.

I started freelancing relatively recently and, like most, it started slowly, roughly a part time. But as school started again this year (I'm a Game Design Teacher), my workload more than tripled during the last two months.

So these infamous 60+ hours a week became a routine but part of this is on me. As many of you know, I am both very passionate and enthusiast when it comes to game/narrative design and I have a very hard time saying “no” when a new working possibility arises. And beyond the passion there was also the  hard fact that I was afraid I simply would not make enough money to provide a living.

So I worked my butt off, it worked, and as the results often ended beyond expectations I got more work and… Well, you get the idea. I managed to slow things down a little bit and some of the worst is behind now but I still need to sort this working stream out.

Sorry I didn't get back to you about it sooner, it's just that I was so deep into it that I really didn't feel the time flying until recently. To give you a stupid example, I double clicked on an mp3 playlist two days ago, and as I recognized it, I realized that I hadn't taken the time to simply chill and listen to music since my last RPG session, six weeks ago... >.>

Aaaanyways, enough with this! On with the game, because yes, even in the thick of it I kept working a bit on this RPG! So, not in any particular order:

* I have tried a different approach to initiative. The principle is that during a fight, the PCs and the NPCs take turn one after the other, starting with a PC.

For instance, your team is charged by a pack of Necrophage looking creatures. The players elect one PC who will act first, then a Necrophage acts, then another chosen PC, etc.

So far I really like it and got quite a few positive feedback on this. It actually gives a good grasp on strategic combat, agency, and combines pretty well with combat powers/maneuvers. To flesh it out, imagine your PC should act third, if you use a power to act just one initiative rank higher, it means you automatically act before an NPC, and right after a friend, opening opportunities for a burst of damage, pinch effects and such.

* I tried a different approach to what actions are. Basically, every character has three actions for the player to spend each turn. These actions can be movements, attacks, powers, maneuvers... Beyond the simple fact that you can now attack more than once per turn, the idea is that some effects cost a certain number of actions to realize (charging a force shield, using Dust...). I had been toying with this idea for quite a bit when I learned that Pathfinder 2^nd edition is doing just that! After a bit of research though (I don't own the game and have yet to read it) there are two main differences between our systems. 
The first is that they have a big team of very talented Designers, so they implemented a lot of tactical options, where I focused on a simpler version – the easy to learn, hard to master school if you will : )

The second difference from what I gathered is that they give maluses when you repeat an action, for instance the second attack in a round would have a 5 point malus and a third attack a 10 point malus.

I go the other way and give bonuses. For instance if you use one movement, you move x meters, if you use two actions, you move twice that amount and get a bonus to defense this turn. Or if you use two actions to attack the same target on a turn, you get a damage bonus on the second one (a bit like the classical one-two punch in boxing).

Same as the first point, so far it really seems to click but I will upload this version so you can tell me how you like it and what you think about it. 

* Sorry about the dampen soil Khorothis, I couldn't find the time yet to go beyond very prototypic scenarios so far, they were little more than context to test system features out, but this is definitely pretty high on my to do list!

* The social system (ethos/pathos/logos) seems to work well. It is not a revolution but it gets things done in a relevant way so...

* And last but not least, I realized that the file I am sharing with you is pretty outdated, and that the one I am using is a pretty mess : ) So my very next step is to clean and upload it so you can have the latest version. 

Sorry again, I really got overwhelmed there. I wish I could go fater, I really do, but I don't want to make any promise I may not hold. So first things first, I get my organization straight, then I clean my working file and upload it for you. This cleaning and organizing will take a bit of time, even more so that I am still struggling to get free Endless RPG dev time, but I will do my very best to do it asap! And in the meantime, I will also pay extra attention to keep you informed, no matter the news!

At any rate, it really is a pleasure to get back to you guys, can't wait for the next post!

Æyl

That's life, man, it doesn't give two shits about you passion projects. That's why I had to drop working on this but I'm glad you're stuck like glue to this project. I don't think there's a long line of people ready to put in this much this quality work for free.

That type of initiative system is more like an enforced turn order. It feels too game-y for my taste. A high/low initiative is a character design choice for all but the greenest of players, while this is just handing half the top10 of the initiative order to the PCs.

Action point economy isn't new. Just take a look at the newer XCOM games, for example. That's what you're describing but with considerably more freedom (which makes perfect sense for a P&PRPG). However, just because I'm doing the same thing two or three times in a row that doesn't mean I'm gaining more benefits on the actions beyond what I get from performing them. Also, Pathfinder giving penalties for doing the same thing more than once in a turn is a very hamfisted and frankly dumb move to enforce a more creative playstyle. Creative players will be creative, there's no stopping them; dense players will be dense, there's no helping them. What would make sense, however, is a sort of "more eggs into one basket" approach, where if I invest more action points into an action (reflecting focus, which is a thing IRL) then I'll get a proportionately better result. Negating partial cover, targeting a specific part (like a knee or a shoulder-mounted weapon), that sort of thing. This is one of those rare occasions where simulationism brings about a better game mechanic.

No one is paying you to work on this, so you owe no one an apology. And as always, obligations and duties take precedence over everything. Just focus on the next logical step and execute it if you still have free time and energy by the time you get far enough down to it on your list of priorities. A man with a fried brain can do little creative work.

Hi guys!


Welcome aboard Daeorus!

About the Genesys System, I studied it quite a bit when I started this project and yes, if you enjoy its style, it is perfectly possible to build an Endless Space version out of this ruleset!
Give Stars Without Numbers a try too if your curious, it is pretty relevant too.

On another note, thanks a lot for your messages guys! With a special blink for Khorothis, I am always impressed at how reactive and thorough you are!

And finally for the project, I am still working things out (a lil bit every day : )) and as soon as I have something shareable I'll post it here!

Till then, have fun everyone!



Æyl

I would attend the event if I could but I'll just have to wish you a good time instead. Looking forward to the update on Sunday!

I don't have any valuable words to say on this topic, but as a total novice and newcomer to the world of tabletop RPG's, I have to say this has me very excited! :D

A tabletop rpg set in Endless Space setting is an awesome opportunity to develop the game's lore. I always wondered how much does a vodyani hovertank cost. I just hope that the apocalypse that is happening right now doesn't slow the development too much. If this project is still alive, I wish you luck in whatever you are doing. Reading this thread in 2020 felt like time-travelling.