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Positive Diplomatic Pressure Demands

Diplomacy

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7 years ago
Mar 1, 2018, 11:29:00 AM

Diplomatic pressure allows demands to be made. These take the form of a win-lose versus a lose situation: either you give me some resource, or you suffer


Basically, you can bully empires you have influence over. 


But influence - particularly on foreign affairs - can be so much more than bullying. It can force mutually beneficial deals, when the other party does not want to allow it (either due to trust, or because it does not want to grant further advantages to someone already in the lead enough to exert pressure!). In other words, diplomatic pressure is a tool for making friends (or at least encouraging people to act like your friend for a while!).


It is a threatening seduction - not bullying.


Examples:


The simplest example to implement is open borders: either open your borders (enabling trade for both parties, perhaps even adding a small boost), or suffer. This is already a new dynamic: win-win versus lose.


We can already force peace from cold-war as pacifists - why not here, as a diplomatic pressure demand, too? Either make peace, or suffer.


We could also have research or trade agreements: let's both benefit, or you suffer.


If the developers wanted to be more adventurous they could be, but I've tried to keep to simple, easy to imlement examples.


(Complicated example: "Yield your regulatory standards to my empire. Either we both benefit from a (%?) dust increase (for N turns), or you suffer.")


The basic rule is simple: it should be a win-win versus lose choice for the recipient- perhaps in an unbalanced fashion, favouring the person doing the pressuring, but not necessarily. These would a different set of demands to the bullying 'win-lose versus lose' choices that the existing 'bullying' demands operate on, be much more thematic, and much more interesting.


Updated 5 days ago.
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7 years ago
Mar 1, 2018, 1:30:08 PM

I completely agree! Right now empires are discouraged from accepting a demand, since either way they lose something. 


Also, I understood diplomatic pressure more as the influence your empire has on the population of the other (they agree with your ideas more), meaning their government is pressured to accept your demand to not upset their people and suffer penalties.


That also would make playing peacefully easier, since not all interests have to be backed by military power. But that would also require the AI to better evaluate trade deals.

Updated 7 years ago.
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7 years ago
Mar 1, 2018, 1:36:51 PM
Gnutato wrote:

Also, I understood diplomatic pressure more as the influence your empire has on the population of the other (they agree with your ideas more), meaning their government is pressured to accept your demand to not upset their people and suffer penalties.

I think that's part of it, but it's a general abstract concept - population favouring your view, diplomats, political propaganda, wealthy interests, insurgencies... But yes, I'm glad I seem to have communicated the idea correclty to you!


There is another gampeplay advantage: if you're playing from behind, you're going to be under pressure. It's no fun to be bullied. It's a lot more fun to be seduced (especially if multiple 'big players' try to seduce you). If the big players bully each other, while seducing the little players, we've got a catchup mechanism and a more fun interaction.


(The devs do pay attention to upvotes etc. Please do spread the word and upvote if you like this idea.)

Updated 7 years ago.
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7 years ago
Mar 1, 2018, 2:13:41 PM

Interesting.

Upvoted, and currious about it, not sure where it could lead us, as I never seen it before in 4X.

Probalby it can soften the being bullied feeling.

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7 years ago
Mar 7, 2018, 2:38:10 AM

Hey really liked your idea of big players give positive demands to weak players so they can both catch up into the game. Seems like a great idea, but i believe it would work better whit multiplayer, Because it seems difficult to implement it into the AI algorythim and make it work as you say, i think.

Updated 7 years ago.
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7 years ago
Mar 7, 2018, 2:45:06 AM

but i just have a few questions: When each of those Positive demands will occur? Because every diplomatic pressure in game can only occur when X situation happens. What will be the situation to implement those positive demands, or  there wont be a situation and you just implement a cooldown turn into those demands while you can implement any of them at any time to your empire? Do you plan to place a sitation, or a cooldown for those actions to occur?  Also, what are those positive demands you want to implement into the game exactly? would you like to make a list of them? :)

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7 years ago
Mar 7, 2018, 9:39:53 AM
Velorace wrote:

but i just have a few questions: When each of those Positive demands will occur? Because every diplomatic pressure in game can only occur when X situation happens. What will be the situation to implement those positive demands, or  there wont be a situation and you just implement a cooldown turn into those demands while you can implement any of them at any time to your empire? Do you plan to place a sitation, or a cooldown for those actions to occur?  Also, what are those positive demands you want to implement into the game exactly? would you like to make a list of them? :)

Diplomatic pressure is when the dipomatic pressure bar gets full. It's seperate to the specific contextual demands you are talking about. Since it takes time to fill, this places a natural cooldown on the action.


I've provided some examples - open borders, peace, and trade/research - that are already states in the game, that are easy to implement. I think it is not hard to imagine different positive demands that might also be possible, but that depends upon developers implementing things - and they know better than me what states are easily implementable.

Updated 7 years ago.
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7 years ago
Mar 7, 2018, 9:41:04 AM
Father wrote:

I also want the ability to pressure other ai to go to war with another AI.

"Join my war against X, or suffer economically!" would be an interesting one! I worry it might be too easy to manipulate the AI though.




Updated 7 years ago.
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