Pirate/Minor Faction Ships; Carrier Class

I would be excited to see a pirate carrier in the game!

+1

Hum... seems cool. but in order to implement a pirate carrier in game, you have to bring MORE pirate levels in game. And you must also think that carriers are WAY too strong, and everyone hates when a carrier is in play, because it can counter most fleets in game. So, having a AI who utilizes of carriers very soon in game, could lead to bad results, because people wont like to lose their fleets for carriers... i believe. I'm not sure it would work. :/ 

Plus pirates are already very strong and cool whit spawning two medium sized ships at max. making them spawning a carrier could make them OP, and have negative impact in game...

Velorace wrote:

Hum... seems cool. but in order to implement a pirate carrier in game, you have to bring MORE pirate levels in game. And you must also think that carriers are WAY too strong, and everyone hates when a carrier is in play, because it can counter most fleets in game. So, having a AI who utilizes of carriers very soon in game, could lead to bad results, because people wont like to lose their fleets for carriers... i believe. I'm not sure it would work. :/ 

Plus pirates are already very strong and cool whit spawning two medium sized ships at max. making them spawning a carrier could make them OP, and have negative impact in game...

Oh so I kinda mentioned this in my other idea (that I created before the pirates were reworked/updated) but basically pirate fleets would be religated to only 1 carrier ship-per-fleet, as to act as a flagship for the pirates. Since pirate fleets spamming carriers would understandably be frustrating as hell and make them even more annoying to deal with. Also I think fleets with a carrier should/would only spawn in systems where a level 5 pirate space station is located. 

In order to prevent the pirates from gaining a carrier before the player or other AI factions (which would give them an upper hand in space engagements, and just doesn’t make sense), I think it’d be neccesary to either; 

1. Revamp the leveling system/amount of turns/time it takes a pirate spacestation to reach level 5 and make it equivalent to the amount of turns it takes for either the player/non-militaristic based AI to generally unlock the tier-5 carrier tech. This of course would fluctuate based on game speed (i.e Fast/Normal/Endless). 

2. Set a hard-coded restriction that only allows Pirate fleets to begin spawning fleets with a carrier once x amount of factions in the game (probably fractionally based, so 1/2 or 1/3 or 2/5, etc) have unlocked carrier tech. 

Also pirate space stations would not spawn a fleet with a carrier everytime spawn, but maybe every 2-3 spawns would result in one fleet with a pirate carrier (Of course the DEVs would know how to balance this more than I would). 

Similarily, Pirate carriers would only unlock the Quadrinix and Orchilax (?) modules once a majority of the factions in the game has unlocked them. 

On a side note, minor factions should function similarily to pirate factions when getting the carrier 

To be honest, im actually starting to like you carrier idea now. but in order to make this even more balanced, we have to estabilish these points first:

• Sometimes, carriers have the same, or nearly equal, damage to a upgraded medium ship whit powerfull attack modules. That means i believe that, pirates can spawn carrier class ships a faction researches upgraded medium ship technology (any kind) or carrier class.
• You have to estabilish a DPS amount for the Carriers and a defense amount. There are many modules in game, and im not sure in how strong a carrier could be in game. 12k? 8k? 2k? (i've seen crazy AI carriers of RIFTBORN faction ((trust me)) having only 2k attack power. How in the space?)

After thinking a bit further more, i think 12 k would fit. or maybe... hmmmm... Nvm, i think the DPS of the carrier will vary whit the modules he uses. depending on its weapon settings (missles, beams, or flak) it will have different DPS. 

But now i think we got a problem: the devs will need to design 3 different carrier ships for pirates... and be completely sure it wont have any , or minimal, negative impact on the game. 

Also, another thing you should consider in your idea, is that those carrier ships will also be a source of XP for defeating those fleets. but by being carriers and spawning every.... 5 turns? 

really? they will still be seeming pretty pretty op. hmmmmm...i got a idea. maybe it could be as level revamped pirates that, whenever they level up, the amount of loot gained and its quality will increase. and at max level, it will spawn a considerable amount of quadrinix and orichalsic, and a fair amount of tier 4 luxury resource, along whit a decent amount of dust for destroying that pirate lair (about 3k dust at max level) but at max level there is a secret: carriers will spawn in UPGRADED mode. so, you will see upgraded carriers in game, but they will only spawn in game after a very long amount of time, or when X conditions are met. 

Your idea is starting to get good, but you need to bring something unique for it to be more acceptable. I agree whit you in a certain point that carriers in game would be benefic, because at late game, pirate fleets are rendered useless. but in early game, they are very, very strong. Maybe if we found a way to increase pirate strenght and make them remarkble enemies we have to defeat all the time, but whenever they upgrade their lair, the amount of loot and resources they drop also increases. this means basically this: Risk and reward. its a pretty good concept tho. So, you will have to let your pirate center to live a very long time in game, and when it reaches maximum level, you will not only get extra XP for defeated fleets, but you will also be able to destroy it for a fine amount of very strong strategic resources you might totally need. this could make pirates fearsome enemies in all stages of the game that are able to bring significant amount of reward if you let them alive. Thats a good concept because, sometimes pirates spawns on very good systems and you can simply destroy those pirate lairs to take them. but if those pirate lairs could give a huge reward on later levels, and some extra XP for your fleet, you can actually consider it, as a strategic option, to let pirates live. or defeat them if you dont want to play whit his fleets and get a good amount of free quadrinix and orichalsix for yourself, or a handsome 75 adamanatian and 75 antimatter for 1 level before the first orichalsix upgrade ( i think there will be two) 

So, make a small chart whit the levels of the fleets, the tier of the modules they will use, and their possible relative DPS on max levels. Also their conditions to spawn, or minimum turn amount. i think minimum turn amount would really help players to FEEL THE NEED to face those pirates like OVERWHELMING GODS! Or raiders, in this case! :)

@Velorace Well I just woke up but I'll try to add all those things to the idea sometime today

For the DPS amounts, I'm sure it would vary, but 8k-12k (depending on what turn it is, per the speed of the game), would probably be the best. However, I think, if this were implemented, the DEVs would probably follow a similar pattern on how the current pirate fleets DPS (gains) are done. Though pirate carriers should be weaker than the typical AI faction carrier (though this would vary based on game difficulty level). And of course, what modules are present on the carrier since pirate fleets greatly vary. 

As for the carriers spawn rate; they wouldn't spawn every 5 turns, but be present after 2-3 pirate fleet spawns. 

So;

-Carrier Fleet

-Non-carrier fleet

-Non-carrier fleet

-Non-carrier fleet

-Carrier Fleet

(or something similar to that, in order to prevent the carriers from becoming too much of a menace and to stop clumping, that's currently common with pirate fleets). 

& Yeah I agree that pirate lairs should be worth more than they are right now, and of course, carriers would be upgraded later on in the game so they become worth more and aren't obsolete later on. 

Actually this is starting to become a nice idea. but i think you still need to put some sort of uniqueness in your idea. make the increase of pirate rewards as a main part of your idea. maybe it could make it more worth for people to defeat pirate lairs and feel a certain sense of reward upon it. Plus carrier fleets he will spawn will be very strong. But in order for that, i think you need to choose the levels rework path. maybe you need to place new levels for the pirate lairs, until they get strong enough to late game. 

Also another point we need to think: medium ships are already able to beat vodianny arks. i hope the carrier fleets will come ready when the arks are at least prepared to defend themselfs.

But looking for the good side, the extra XP provided by those carriers could be great for leveling up those arks, i think. maybe it could be a good idea to do so. 

Hmmmm... try reworking on the levels of the pirates and providing a max level like... 7. Or something. and make a list of the rewards your judge fair for pirate lairs for each of those levels. 

If you do that, you will get my vote! :)

also dont remember: Risk and reward. thats the concept you're working for!