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Influence Wars for Minor Factions

PoliticsMinor FactionsDiplomacy

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6 years ago
Apr 25, 2018, 3:47:58 PM

Let us go to WAR over who controls the minor factions.


Right now, once you reach "100" on your influence level with a minor faction, you can no longer spend any of your influence to capture "sovereignty" over them. What happens is that an AI player (or player in multiplayer) can capture that sovereignty if they spend a lot of influence right before reaching 100. This locks in the sovereignty and allows that major faction access to the special luxury expenditure bonus for that minor faction.


We should be able to have unlimited spending of influence if we so choose, while keeping the option to assimilate open to the current sovereignty holder. The current system only makes it an option to assimilate a minor faction (and assuming their trait) if you go to war with them. This is a problem for peaceful players.


Major factions can then go to “war” by expending influence. You can also spend influence to reduce all other major factions in some sort of cost basis way that makes sense. I feel like this part of the game is overly simplistic and unfair - maybe even broken. Let’s beef it up some.

Updated a day ago.
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Out of Vision

The OUT OF VISION status is given by the dev team to ideas that are not compatible with their vision of the game or technically not feasible.

The-Cat-o-Nine-Tales

DEV The-Cat-o-Nine-Tales

status updated 5 years ago

We have an option to manipulate sovereignty status with hacking, but won't implement an infinite standing cap as suggested here.

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6 years ago
Sep 7, 2018, 8:06:47 PM

I thought about it and came with a different approach - to have each race have a subtype of relation with a minor civ.
We can see it with Eternal War Cravers - no diplo, only destruction.
We can see it even better with Vodyani - a nation enters a client-state through brainwashing YET cannot become anything more, only a hunting ground for your leeches or a mere ghost-system after "evacuating" a system, that should be better called "purging" a system of natives.


Once a [brainwash]( a proposed "client state" for other races) status is reached, an allegiance of a MinCiv is locked at 100%. Some races would end the process of assimilation right here to diversify Majors.

Some races, like Horatio could assimilate a MinCiv, yet some other, like Hissho, would not - only taking bonuses in Keii and taking a tithe of "sacrifices".


It could go further: Non-Eternal War Cravers could go for [Race]Slavery(namechanged Brainwash), then taking a tithe of slaves/resources from said client-state, that could change into normal Assimilation. 


Some races, like Lumenari, could STILL luxury bribe a 100% locked Civ, but with a higher price.






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5 years ago
Jul 13, 2019, 1:54:43 AM

Thanks for the update on this idea The-Cat-o-Nine-Tales. It's nice to see the Devs still engaging with the player-base ideas, whether yay or nay, this late in the game's cycle. 

Updated 5 years ago.
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Out of Vision

The OUT OF VISION status is given by the dev team to ideas that are not compatible with their vision of the game or technically not feasible.

The-Cat-o-Nine-Tales

DEV The-Cat-o-Nine-Tales

status updated 5 years ago

We have an option to manipulate sovereignty status with hacking, but won't implement an infinite standing cap as suggested here.

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5 years ago
Mar 28, 2019, 4:47:49 PM

i agree to an extent

i dont like how if another person gets to 100 its suddenly locked at 100 but actual score is over that, or if they over boosted they can go over your score and assimiate better than you
it feels bugged, no strategy.

needs to have more depth to minor factions such as more ways to win favour in depth rather than just "press button" = "get points".
the quest half way is very nice and i wish it had that kind of feel to it.

for example, having explored apercent of the galaxy gives a bonus to factions who are imterested in science or exploration.

finding tor makes pilgrims like you , owning tor more so.
(have some unique ones too, like first one to tell them where tor is gets points).

and this would add lots of depth to the game, more quests and more things to do and focus

owning their prefered luxuary gets points.

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6 years ago
Mar 17, 2019, 8:33:38 AM
Abrasax wrote:

This is something that could definitely be added in the espionage system. Perhaps espionage could be the tool used to "influence" minor factions to counter the "first to 100" problem.

so privateering must be a core function in in game?

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6 years ago
Mar 8, 2019, 10:52:56 AM

In most cases, I just do as Velorace suggests: fill the really important factions with silly amounts of influence right before 100 to prevent enemy suzerain, and keep other ppl. guessing on how high they would have to go. 


It would be way more engaging if u could for example “protect/guard” them with a fleet, resulting in different rates of influence/ replacing influence with “threat”. That way, players who are behind in influence can park a fleet in orbit to even the playing field OR protect the faction from other empires spending (massive) amounts of influence on them.

 

  • The influence-rich player can boost their economy, while the faction output will decline when under “thread”.
  • Influence is effectively replaced with ship upkeep


Appart from this, in the late game I miss an opportunity to spend accumulated influence. I believe I had one game with over a 100.000 influence sitting around, though I must admit I am not big on political spending/ Sometimes there is just not enough for a new law etc. - You can't spend acc. infl. to temporarily support a law


But the most important feature for me would be a way to see other empires progress and avoid pumping factions with unnecessarily huge amounts of influence in early game:

  • Since u are “on good terms” after raising to ~50+, u should have some supporters on the surface that inform you of foreign empires actions on the planet.
Updated 6 years ago.
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6 years ago
Mar 4, 2019, 5:42:30 AM

I hope minor factions can provide unique strong weapons,special buildings or ship designs(Mavros is very good at military project,you know.)

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6 years ago
Dec 25, 2018, 8:36:06 PM

I like the OP's idea. I think he is on the right track with reworking the MinCiv diplomacy.


   It is pretty lame when you spend many turns and resources to inculcate a friendly relationship with a MinCiv that you may not yet want to, cannot yet afford the influence cost to, or meet quest requirements to assimilate only to lose suzerainty permanently and without warning to another empire. You still have a couple options there, but they are limited as others have said to combat or begging in diplomacy. As a fan of "more choice is better" it would be nice to see something like the OP's idea to add another option or two available to players in this situation.


  Also the lack of warning about a loss of suzerainity is a problem itself. It would be nice to get a pop-up warning "You will lose sovereignty over [MinCiV X] in 1 turn" so that you could at least choose whether or not to flood the MinCiv with your own influence praising or assimilate with influence, quest, or war right then and there.

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6 years ago
Oct 3, 2018, 6:25:07 PM

Completely agree, I feel like those cold war periods in endless space would be better if we could fight over proxies; perhaps add a political element.

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6 years ago
Aug 18, 2018, 8:16:27 PM

Agree that there should definetly be an option to snatch a minor faction from another empire by directly interacting with the minor faction itself! Right now this is only doable trough diplomacy with the major faction but usually they are not interested on doing that trade.


Also while we are at it, i think assimilating should be a little harder, right now most minor factions dissapear too early :/

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6 years ago
Jul 9, 2018, 11:41:13 AM

But i just have one question: When you mean "lets beef it up some" you are trying to say that, it would be better for the game if we could spend unlimited amount of influence on these?


Personally, after thinking a little bit more... i realized influence is a very hard to acquire resource (you have to spend plenty of turns building infraestructures like Denmarque University or influence planetary specializations... or something) and even so you always will have just a little bit of influence, and in the end, you will always struggle to at least have enough influence to praise a certain minor faction. When the game starts, we have around 5 or 7 influence per turn. If you pay attention, before turn 30 on fast mode or 40 most minor factions in the whole game are already assimilated. 


I can't see how we can wage "Influence war" whit minor factions if, 


  • After a certain (relatively small) turn treshold most minor factions are already assimilated
  • Are we supposed to wage "Influence wars" whit minor factions or simply assimilate them when we can? That part of your idea i haven't understood. This can also make players a little bit dizzy in their empire expansion decision.
  • Influence generation is too low for most major factions unless they spend vast amount of turns building influence-type infraestructures, and spend tons of turns researching influence upgrades in Empire and Development screen, Which often is not necessary for certain major factions, like Unfallen, or United Empire, because they have vast influence output and they dont even need to build infraestructures, since guardians yields them more science than almost anything in the entire endless universe.
  • Most influence outcome eithers come from A- Influence generation planetary improvements, which may take very long to build and can hinder the war effort of any nation who attempts to build them. Therefore, creating influence wars based on this concept would only make influence Elite wars, since most people won't be able to compete in those wars because they will focus on real wars instead of those, being not good for the balance of the game. Secondly, from B- Unique planets, and since Unique planets are hidden trough the galaxy and unavialiable for most, and finding unique planets is not really a matter of skill, but also of Luck, it can make Influence Wars even more elitist than they currently are. If one major faction finds a unique planet, like Teonha, early in the game... it can easily not only assimilate every major faction, but reap MASSIVE boosts from it, and when people realize the only way to compete whit this major faction is to assimilate their minor factions, its already too late, since it can already have more than twice the score from anyone in the game. And just for you to know, twice the score can mean something like 4x research than half score. And whit research you unlock greater and more powerfull military ships faster so, gg.
  • You can also rename influence wars for influence Domination,  since there can't be any real war upon something where one major faction has massive advantage upon, and others have collosal disvantages at the point of relying on either luck or forced  playstyle (building X structure in the middle cauz "I want to compete in influence wars) Only to compete whit something that can be Easily  simplified, and still work, like the current influence not-war  system.
  • You can also say something like "Oh but the game itself is a domination and not a war" but srsly,  at least it begins fair for everyone. In the influence "war" concept you create, its only "fair" for unfallen and united empire, since they yield vast influence output, making the game even more balanced than it *currently*  is.
  • Instead of people utilizing influence to wage war upon "minor factions", i believe it would be a vast, great, and better idea, to only keep the system as it currently is, since we (or me at least) is always running low on influence, and i always have tons of things i want to make whit influence besides "Overpraising a certain major faction". For example, instead of allowing a in-game feature that increase the amount of influence we can spend on minor factions unlimited, it would be better for me to simply increase my influence output instead of that, since Minor factions are not the only thing we can spend influence upon. we can even wage war whit other major factions utilizing influence and, trust me, being such a scarce resource for SO MANY major factions, i find myself building and researching influence technlogies / improvements just to wage war at a cost against other major factions to expand my empire, so who can say wage war on minor  factions whit a resource scarce like diamonds in space?  i wonder if those even exists...  
  • Even whit all these factors, you seemingly forgotten to explain how these "minor faction wars" will be done, and you simply said Lets beef it up some but you din't explained on how this process will be maked, and you left the people to think about themselves how this influence war process would be done, and haven't picked yet any idea that some users gave you to improve your idea. I hope this observation may help you in future ideas :)

Thefore, i liked the concept of your idea, but i view it as unviable whit the following factors stated above, unless you find a way to counter-argument them whit massive and GREAT philsophy! :D


Updated 6 years ago.
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6 years ago
May 24, 2018, 8:46:15 PM

Right now, minor factions are a "take it or leave it" feature; either it's a faction trait (or gene splice) you want, or you ignore it.  Once it's assimilated, that's it.  There's nothing more to say about that faction other than one player has the trait and nobody else can get it.  Minor factions never do anything other than defend their planets (poorly) from assault and then give the conquering player a permanent buff.  It ends up feeling a bit...artificial.


I really feel like faction traits shouldn't be a single, empire-wide buff that you only get when you finish a quest or take a planet.  If a faction trait was divvied up among it's population units into SYSTEM-wide bonuses, however, it would give players a real incentive to let them grow, to say nothing of capturing systems full of them.  It would give us ways to earn, capture, trade and scale up the unique rewards of having a minor faction as a portion of our empire.

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6 years ago
May 11, 2018, 2:35:29 PM

Yeah, encountered this again the other day after reading this discussion, and thought of this suggestion. Mostly thought "Oh, yeah, that's what Karash was talking about."

Mostly it is annoying that the game still let's you feed in influence to get points, but the points don't do anything. If the interface was completely blocked out by a message "These people have joined empire XYZ", it wouldn't be such an issue.
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6 years ago
May 7, 2018, 4:27:27 PM

Hey good idea. i've just thought something here: Maybe adding a special bonus for Influence Wars that, if you reach a certain THREHSHOLD of influence whit the minor faction, you could give an extra boost on the faction trait, which could increase 50% / 100% in total (being 100% very hard to acquire, obviously) that way major factions instead of going to assimilate those minor factions the soonest they can, they will try to preserve those good minor factions in order to buff them even further before you assimilate them. 


This also would open house for Minor Faction Wars, to be upgrade even further. Should i assimilate this minor faction already, or work my way to buff it? It's a great question we could have, that could buff up the strategy of the game even further. The more you try to upgrade your relations whit a minor factions, the more dangerous it is, as other players might get the minor faction for themselves. This could also add up for the strategy in game. 


UPVOTED! :)

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6 years ago
May 7, 2018, 1:36:50 AM

This is something that could definitely be added in the espionage system. Perhaps espionage could be the tool used to "influence" minor factions to counter the "first to 100" problem.

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