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War and Diplomacy realism: contact visibility

Diplomacy

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6 years ago
Oct 14, 2018, 7:13:14 AM

It should be possible to suspend or terminate war status and even discovery/diplomatic contact if the empires lose contact with each other.   For example, playing as United Empire, I decided to eradicate my neighbors, the Hssho, in the early game.  They apparently had either wormhole or free travel tech, while I didn't, and established a colony in a constellation I hadn't discovered yet.  I decimated and conquered their original systems, but their empire survived because of the colony to which they evacuated, off my map.  As far as I should have been aware, their empire was gone, and if I wanted to pursue further diplomacy or continue my war with them, I would have to rediscover them as a civilization.. which is a pretty intriguing scenario.  However, the diplomatic interface still insisted I was "at war" with them, and I could force a truth and otherwise still talk to them despite not knowing, on the board, where they are.  It might be interesting to change the war and diplomacy mechanics to allow contacts to be suspended if the two empires physically lose touch with each other.

Updated a month ago.
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6 years ago
Jan 5, 2019, 5:50:28 PM

You might be forgetting that from their map perspective, they still knew of your location and chose to persue the war instead of offering truce.


   I'll dive into abstraction to reinforce my position here. Diplomatic contact is abstractly represented in Endless Space, as in 4X games in general. In reality it is handled through abassadors, envoys, back-channels, intelligence, leader to leader meetings, etc. All of this is abstracted away and distilled down the the diplomacy interface. So in theory, some form of that abstracted contact would probably have alerted your empire that yes the Hissho empire still stands in some unknown location and yes they are still in a state of war with you.

   Even if they had accepted a truce with you after you took their core systems, it is reasonable to think that their empire would have wanted to maintain some form of relationship with your empire for purposes of commerce and if relations got warm enough some kind of deal that would allow some of their people to migrate back to their home planet as subjects of your empire [I know this isn't a possible in-game action, I'm speaking from a lore perspective], or more accurately (knowing the Hissho temperment) gain the stability needed to rebuild their war machine and tear their home planet from your unworthy grip by force. I know I'm really exercising my imagination here, but imagination is necessary to cope with the level of abstraction that makes 4X strategy games structurally playable without the need for heavy micromanagment.


   I'm getting away from the main point now, but the reason I look at it like this is because any given war between nations does not last forever. 4X games that allow for war, peace, alliances, betrayal, etc. between empires are much more interesting to me than games that put you at perpetual war with opposing factions, eg. Ai War: Fleet Command. The evolution of diplomacy and politics is deeply nuanced. I mean look at Japan: they went from merciless Bushido to Hello Kitty. They did so while embracing their conquerers as partners in a new social order. War literally changed the face of their nation, as it has done so for many nations. This is why I like ES2, I feel it captures the dynamics of diplomatic and political relationships in a unique way, one that has a hint of authenticity compared to real life on Earth.


tl;dr I see where you're coming from, but I politely reject your suggestion because space opera :)

Updated 6 years ago.
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6 years ago
Jan 5, 2019, 6:34:29 PM

I just recalled an old game I played called Space Empires V. That game handled diplomatic contact in a way I think would satisfy your idea, but might not be possible in ES2 anyways. That game allowed for destruction of starlanes between systems, so that if you destroyed the last connection between your empire's systems and another part of the galaxy, you would lose all contact between any and all empires located in that now isolated part of the galaxy. They would thus dissapear from your diplomatic interface. It was also possible for empires to create new starlane connections, so this situation didn't have to be a permanent disconnect either.


The reasoning there in Space Empires is that it cuts off all possible routes abstracted diplomatic contact, so that even if there are allies on that side of the galaxy, you can have no way of knowing what happens to them after the starlane is destroyed. So yeah, again I totally see where you're coming from, I just don't think it can work out in a sensible way in ES2.

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