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Upgradable battle cards

Space BattlesMilitaryResearch

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7 years ago
Apr 5, 2018, 1:47:46 PM

There is a huge problem whit the current battle cards system: There are many battle cards, but only a few of them are actually usefull, if compared to flat stats battle cards. 


Each battle card is consisted of 2 concepts: the range and its bonueses. Currently, the bonueses for some battle cards are so weak and innefective that the ranges of the battle cards or flat bonueses battle cards are oftenly more important than the bonus provided for non-flat bonueses battle cards. 


This leads people to prefer utilize those battle cards for its range concept, or simply alternate to flat bonueses battle cards that are generic and benefic to almost every battle.


There are currently two types of battle cards in game: Battle cards that are usefull in specific situations (Destroy 2 crew per hit / 70% extra crit damage / extra damage per ship on enemy flotilla) and so on. these specific cards, i believe, are useless in most situations of the game, except for very especific situations that rarely occur in game. 


The problem is, oftenly even in those situations these battle cards are rendered useless by flat bonueses battle cards, because those battle cards are simply so usefull and straightfoward they can be applied at pratically any battle, and reap a huge reward from each of them.


For example, you start whit post op analyzies (25% extra xp) , a card that gives you 75% extra shield potential and -10% hp, and another card that gives you 55% extra armor and lots of close range attack opportunities. 


If you pay attention , together, these 3 battle cards, should consist the deck of about 75%+ of all the players in the game because, they are simply very, very effective. 25% extra xp for every battle you play? you can use this almost all the time to level up your hero and make your fleet FAR stronger after battle. 


55% Extra armor + short range defense? the best choice for a full flak fleet against the enemy! how could you lose if the enemy has the same fleet type to you and he uses a different tatic?


Extra shield and long + medium range? the best choice (for a while) if you have a missle fleet or the enemy has laser weapons at his disposal. 


What im trying to explain is, together, all these battle cards, only 3 of them, have enough potential to render other battle cards useless, in most situations, except for extremely key situations in game, like you want to destroy the enemy man power to survive. 


That means: only a few battle cards are usefull in most situations. and whenever you research new battle cards in the technology stages, they rather feel useless or you simply research those upgrades because "they provide a good shield" or something like it. It is necessary to make all battle cards usefull in most situations, so you could feel the sense of collecting battle cards that actually change the flow of battle, and help you to win the battles you need. 


Why have so many battle cards if only a few are actually usefull to be played in most situations of the game?


So, in order to solve this and make most battle cards usefull in all situations of the game, we could use the Research Tree of the game and the different stages of technologies to create, instead of battle cards that are usefull only in specific situations and end up useless in 90% of all the cases of the game, we need to use this research tree stage to give players different initial battle cards that are upgraded as players research different technology stages of the military techs and keep upgrading their battle cards efficiency. 


That way battle cards won't be useless in some situations and usefull in anothers, every single card will have its place in game. There will be battle cards for late game, for mid game and for early game. And all of them will be usefull, in their on way. 


but in order to do that, we need to estabilish some sort of "battle card galactic law" in order to balance all the battle cards so some of them are not excessevily stronger than others or rendered useless by another battle card, and i believe this law would be:


All battle cards should utilize flat bonueses that are upgraded for researching its specific technologies on higher stages, when initial battle cards are replaced for weaker versions of such.



For example, the initial battle cards every player would have when they start a game, would be something like... 


15% extra armor strenght on ships(Lane 1,2,3 respectively: Medium- Short - Short) 


then 15% extra shield on ships (Long - Medium - Short)


10% extra crit chance on ships (Medium- Medium- Long)


10% extra xp after battle (Short- Long- Medium)


For example, these types of battle cards will be availble when you start the game. and as you progress trough the different technology stages and research battle cards tech, you will upgrade your already owned battle cards to something like this:  


Post OP analyzies II: 20% Extra XP on fleet after battle


Post OP analyzies III: 30% Extra XP  on fleet after battle


Post OP analyzies IV: 50% Extra XP on fleet after battle


and so on for different technologies techs. that could help to make all battle cards usefull in all stages of the game, and make these battle cards have a higher impact on the game whiteout harming the strategy of space battles and simplifying things up. 


Also you will only upgrade battle cards when you research the requeired technology on the military stage, that is divided by different tech stages, and each stage above featuring a upgrade of the previous battle card.


so according to this logic, each battle card would be upgradable until tier IV, which would be correspondent to the technolgy stage 5 of military tree.


Note: The bonuses for these battle cards need to grow in a small, bug signant amount of bonus % in order to incentivate people to research advanced technologies of the same kind, so those upgrades seem more singnificant to research and not useless to "upgrade" in the next technology quadrant.



The new battle card system


I believe it would also be necessary to implement new battle cards for each technology stage, and also rework a bit the battle cards found by doing curiosities. 


Here is a simple sketch of how these new battle cards would look like :


Research name

New battle cards

Titanium Electroplating

25% Extra armor on fleet, 15% extra crit chance on fleet, 15% extra physical damage

Survival Suits

25% extra shields on fleet, 20% extra XP after battle, 15% extra energy damage  

Adamantian Electroplating

45% Extra armor on fleet, 20% extra crit chance on ships,  25% extra physical damage

Antimatter Channeling

45% extra shields on fleet, 30% extra XP after battle, 25% extra energy damage

Interleaved Orichalcix

70% Extra armor strenght on fleet, 25% extra crit chance on fleet, 40% extra  physical damage

Quadrinix Toroids

70% extra shield strenght on fleet, 50% extra XP on fleet , 40% extra energy damage




Curiosty related battle cards 


The concept of curiosity related battle cards is that, battle cards that are usefull in specific situations of the game. be it mid game, late game, or early game. these extra battle cards cannot be upgradaded in different versions and are inteded to improve the strategical gameplay of the game even further.


Example curiosity tier 2: enemy fleet has less CP threshold than enemy max CP: 40% extra fleet damage if CP threshold is 30% or lower, 30% extra damage if 50% or lower, or 20% if 50% or higher Reason: Ability to utilize enemy weakness at your favor.


Example curiosity tier 3,4: 200 Extra dust and science per Medium Ships destroyed. 400 Dust and Science once tier 4. Reason: Medium ships Weapons can be scavenged for dust, and used as a research tool.


Example Curiosity tier 4: 1000 dust and scienct per carrier ship destroyed. Reason: "Something" Found scavenging Carriers that is worth alot of dust, and may help scientists to research?

Unfortunally i haven't thought up more possible battle cards to be researchble trough curiosities. If you are willing to help me and got a idea of what battle card we could include in the game, state it below in the comments section. I'm all ears! :)



Updated 21 days ago.
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7 years ago
Apr 9, 2018, 6:23:00 AM

Sharing my posts about the same subject:

----------------------------------------------------------------

https://www.games2gether.com/endless-space-2/ideas/1738-battle-card-changes


What do I think would be good changes or at least a good direction to think about?

 

1)More cards with more specific orders.

ship type specific cards giving orders to specifc ship sizes only.


2)The ability to use more than one card.


3)Changing cards should take time and should be gradual. Meaning? That if you are using 3 cards you cannot just change them all. You have ot change one card at a time and it has a cooldown.


4)Card levels- when you use a card of a certain type enough It will upgrade once or twice giving small bonuses each time and solidfying itself making it a bit harder to remove it.

Say you use a card that causes your light hull types to disengage the battle in the middle. If you use the card in enough battles it will upgrade giving them a small dmg bonuses but also increasing the cooldown that is needed to repalce the card with another.


The battle systme actually needs more stability and more gradual change IMO.


--------------------------------------------------------

https://www.games2gether.com/endless-space-2/ideas/1771-strategy-and-tactics-in-battles


ATM, preperation for battles is essentially instantaneous. You see an enemy fleet, you insta retorfit if you have dust and change your card and positions in the battle screen.


What I propose is seperating "tactics" from longer term strategy.

How?

Certain changes to ships and cards should be possible to do fast while others should take more time.

How to acheive this?


1) Add more cards, change them and divide them into 3 card types. 

The player will be able to combine 3 cards, one from every card type(as soon as he has 3 cards to use).

During battle, you will only be able to change 1 card for a price, based on the cost of your fleet in that battle. Changing cards outside of battle will also cost time and only one card will be able to be changed at a time. Changing a card might take 1 or more turns.


2) Retrofitting ships should take time based on how many parts a ship type needs to retrofit.

This mans you can't just immidiately retrofit your ships. Retrofitting ships should be able to move after initializing the retrofitting procedure. 

So, if you retorfit one part then perhaps it will be instantaneous or only take one turn but if you want to retrofit more parts then it will take longer. 


Why do this at all? 

To create a certain feeling of continuity in strategy while still allowing some flexibility. This will add more depth to combat and will create interesting dynamics for espionage and for deciding who to fight because you might be at a bigger disadvantage versus certain races and their current fleet strategy.

It will also remove the clunky way in which it works now where every battle can essentially be you using some completely different stratgey from 1-2 turns before. It will also have the framework to solve probe abuse.

Updated 7 years ago.
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7 years ago
Apr 23, 2018, 1:46:27 AM

Hello father. I will be answering your idea in your thread in order to help you improve it. I hope it helps you! :) 


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7 years ago
May 20, 2018, 1:33:03 PM

I just thought up about something: A battle card that could  reward you whit 100 dust and science per  CP point lost... but after thinking a bit more, i realized people would cheat in those battle cards, by creating scouts and earning massive boost of income whit those battle cards... and even if scouts wherfe neglected, they could build small ships whit those and those batttle cards would incentivize war... then i thought something up pretty much after: And if only medium ships were applied for such a card... ? Well, people can create medium ships and get a great boost if the ship costs a few (and not upgraded)... But if we keep the extra income low enough so people don't trade building structures for ships , and.... make it only availble for that ship class, we can almost ensure that players will build these medium ships to WIN battles instead of utilizing them as cannon fodders, because it would be simply better to place structures sometimes...

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7 years ago
Jun 9, 2018, 6:11:22 PM

May you consideren a simplification? This is only as proposal to make it easyer to manage and understand, specially for new players.

The idea is to make the cards auto-upgrade when you reach one stage in military tree, provided you only have the cards you unlocked via techs, or you get from curiosities. Of course the idea is yours, and you can consider making this change specific for some cards.

As example, the card that gives you +70% shields, can be turned to: +(10*[military stage unlocked])% to shields, this way it will auto-upgrade from 10%, 20%,...,50% at military stage 5.


From what I read, you're more form unloking it via techs, so you can consider a simplification as follows:

You start with most/all cards unlocked. Then specific techs will upgrade a type of card to next lvl, as example you can make titanium electroplating upgrade all defensive cards to lvl2.


Of course your idea is good as it is. What I proposed is only to make it a bit more simple and direct.

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7 years ago
Jun 11, 2018, 7:19:49 AM

Hello Lo_Fabre. Thanks for your idea! I really liked it. But the concept of my idea is something like this: To give more impact to battle-card related techs, so people rethink if they will get a certain military upgrade just for the shields, or for the battle cards. By adding a higer impact for battle card techs, it could make the multiplayer or singleplayer battles more strategic, because it would help people in having to decide into making decisions that can help or not in improving their efectiveness in space battles, as well as their Empire.


I believe there is a problem whit automatic card upgrade for tech level: The idea of giving different buffs that upgrades as higher tech levels are acquired, is to increase the impact of spending tons and tons of researchs on that tech. If we just make something like tier 4 battle cards are nearly the same as tier 5 battle cards, people would instead just research tier 3 battle cards and go on for carriers or upgradable carriers, and simply forgot the rest of the battle cards because "Not very cost efficient" Or something like it. 


The second point i don't really agree whit, is that if we research automatically these battle cards as we unlock different tech stages... we wont need to choose between one tech or another for battles, and this would make these battle cards availble for everyone... pretty, pretty easily. I believe that, that way.... whoever has higher military stage power will always win space battles, because they would get two buffs instead of one: Extra xp for fleets (and therefore stats) and very, very very strong battle cards!



Im going to repeat it one last time: The idea is to give battle cards an impact bonus on research, that makes people think in getting battle cards and collecting them in different stages of the game. Like, a card collecting system. Where you collect them trough resources and these resources upgrades your effectiveness somehow. Also, by collecting these battle cards that way, it will be possible to increase the strategy of the game, as every single research related to shields and battle cards will be much more usefull, at a point of people wanting to upgrade these techs. 


Thanks for your idea lo_fabre! but what you mean by simplifying things up? Is my idea a bit too complex to understand? I thought it was relatively easy if compared to my ... Other *IDEA*  (its more a monster than a idea, even the devs admited it xD)

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7 years ago
Jun 11, 2018, 4:24:59 PM

Of course this is your idea, and is well planned as it is.

I was suggesting to make it simple to apply, or you cann just simply add your suggestions to actual techs.

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7 years ago
Jun 11, 2018, 7:00:53 PM

What suggestions could i add to my techs? =D


I also dint get about that simplicity... what you mean by it?

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7 years ago
Jun 11, 2018, 7:03:26 PM

Probalby I was missing something. I thought that you were sepaking of putting more new techs.

But reading again, seems what you're speaking is just making actual techs that unlocks cards better, by enhacing the cards you got.

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7 years ago
Jun 11, 2018, 7:10:16 PM

Yea, exactly that. To make the techs that gives shields and battle cards more impactating in gameplay. I honestly believe that if place a seperate tech for these battle cards it would make people have far too many options to spend their research upon, either way...

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7 years ago
Jun 11, 2018, 7:11:45 PM

That would even be usefull for riftborn players, as most of their attacker ships are filled to the brim whit attack modules, and only a single shield slot. By making this tech like that, they will reconsider is gathering those upgrades, also.

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