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Making tall playstyle viable

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6 years ago
Aug 1, 2018, 9:54:14 AM

Right now the best way to play Endless Space 2 is to keep expanding. More systems means access to more ressources and with laws and approval buffer, Federation and system level 4 its possible to expand endlessly.     

However, some people like to play with less systems because having to manage 20+ systems makes the game feel tedious. But there is nothing gained from simply having less systems.        


If we wanted a tall playstyle to be viable, we need some things:

A way for players to gather ressources without settling more systems. 

A way for players to make their fewer systems be more powerful, being equal in strength to multiple systems of other players.

A stronger defense for said systems. 

A way to keep improving systems further than other players systems who keep expanding. 

A way to have a bigger influence bubble, because otherwise a player with many systems can easily overake the borders of a player with fewer systems. 

(Another experimental option would be to have a new level of approval, something beyond ecstatic with even bigger bonuses, since ecstatic is quite easy to reach lategame with terraforming, assimilation bonuses and heroes.)


So I propose the following solution:

Allow players to gather ressources with ships, or some kind of off-system refineries (I heard behemoths will allow this) 

Increased system level which grant extra bonuses. However, upgrading to these system levels should work passively, or cost food. You don't want to block your construction queue with a system improvement if your system has the industry output worth of multiple systems. 

The increases system levels should interact with maximum colonization threshhold, so something like each extra system level reduces colonization threshhold. And maybe the fact that system level 4 allows for endless expansion should be re-evaluated. 

Defense of said tall systems has to be a lot stronger, so the manpower defense should be dependant on system level aswell as population amount. Also the influence output should be more tied to system level and population amount. 



Updated a month ago.
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6 years ago
Aug 24, 2018, 11:49:31 PM

I like the idea behind this (anything to encourage different playstyles and increase replayability is appreciated), though I feel like it would require a pretty major rework to a lot of systems in ways I don't fully grasp, including changing a lot of the end-game mechanics like you said (lvl.4 expansions etc.). I would also question how it would scale between map sizes- would five systems be able to equal ten in a small map vs. 40 in a bigger one? 


Still, Amplitude hasn't shied away from completely changing how different races work in EL, so maybe...?

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6 years ago
Aug 25, 2018, 2:18:46 PM

Hey thanks for your reply! I am currently hoping for a good balance rework, so this is mostly in Amplitude's hands. 


Food and Dust need a big rework, Influence needs to be looked at aswell. 

Luxuries need to be more useful overall, not have a select few which are mandatory.


I know Aitarus is thinking about making the Republic Party taylored for a Tall playstyle. Maybe this will work. 

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6 years ago
Oct 3, 2018, 2:20:33 PM

Like EUReKA42 I like your idea. At the same time I think we might have to settle with less, but as has been said already I cannot grasp the complexity of those changes either.

I wanted to create a much smaller idea when I found your suggestion: Happiness should be much harder to come by playing with many systems and at the same time I suggest to implement a method to pay happiness to make Planets bigger (in terms of allow more population on them without altering their scaling). Maybe this would be a nice addition to your changes.

All in all there should be a solution for players who want to play tall and it should not be restricted to one or two races, so you got my vote! :)

Updated 6 years ago.
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6 years ago
Oct 6, 2018, 3:50:00 PM

After I read the info about the Umbral Choir, I thought to myself: What if population merging was available for all factions? Of course we don't know how exactly it would work, but I think this is something that could work for making a tall playstyle viable.


Maybe it would work like this: Fuse 2 population together their bonuses add up but they only take up 1 population slot. They still count as 2 population for "per population" bonuses. This would allow factions to get past the 60 pop limit on systems, which is reached with 14 population per planet and 5 planets. 

However, as drawback, the system would count as more than 1 system towards the colonization treshold. 


I'm sure the guys at Amplitude already thought about this, I just wanted to remind them that having an option to play for all factions would be greatly appreciated, and the "population merging" is a great idea.


I got another idea when I was looking at the citadel bonuses: Naturally, you would want your few, tall systems to be protected well. But even huge amounts of system defense can get sieged down to zero....unless:


Special improvement for tall systems that grants "unremovable manpower" similar to the bonus you get on your citadel systems. As a quick reminder, some citadel upgrades include an improvement to system defense, which cannot get reduced and is always active. I think something like this would also greatly help out tall systems, and should be active on the Umbral Choir's home system, kinda like the Cultist city which has additional defenses. 



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