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6 years ago
Jan 13, 2019, 3:22:30 PM

The thing I love about Endless Legends is that that first 30 turns feel active and alive, especially as each faction has its own focus and way of doing things.


With ES2 I feel that no matter what faction you are playing the beginning of the game feels hollow, especially if you are trying to keep system moral high and not colonise every system in sight (which the AI seems to do). For me it saps the joy out of the game, and while I have completed several runs as the Sophons it does feel more of a chore than a joy.


Personally I would love to see more dynamic starts, possibly with a more active series of quests that add unique flavour to each faction rather than the generic ones that are there at present (aside from the faction ones of course). Give each faction a real taste for its uniqueness, make us be clamouring to try each one out for the unique introduction to the game, and then have that flavour drip through the game.


This could be achieved through several methods:


  • A series of random, though flavoursome, events that really amplify the nature of each faction. I.e. if you'r playing Sophons double down on the go big or go home research ethos.
  • Allow a more rapid expansion without tanking moral for the player, as this will enable players to get a decent foothold before the AI comes banging on the door. This could be encouraged through the foundation of science/trading/spy/fortified colonies that as long as they focus on the core attributes of the faction for a period of time will not reduce down the moral of the established systems
  • Flavoured diplomacy based around the faction's core ideals - I appreciate that this is in the game, but at present in the early game you are more likely to be the targhet of animus than a more pragmatic approach to trading - If the Sophons are light years ahead with tech surely a better trade system would allow for a golden hello
  • Derelict/abandoned/dead ships or stations within systems that can be reactivated by the player or the AI allowing for bonuses, new ships, new research, event chains etc. Stellaris does this fairly well, and it adds a lot of flavour to the early game.

Ultimately as ES2 is a turn based game having early flavour and dynamism will help draw players further into the game and really differentiate between the factions at the beginning of the game.

Updated 15 days ago.
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6 years ago
Jan 14, 2019, 4:46:52 PM

"Derelict/abandoned/dead ships or stations within systems that can be reactivated by the player or the AI allowing for bonuses, new ships, new research, event chains etc. Stellaris does this fairly well, and it adds a lot of flavour to the early game."


This is effectively already implemented in the game.  Some signal anomalies and some quests triggered by anomalies result in the player salvaging derelicts that join their fleet.   Some even spawn pirates!   Rut roh!  


"Flavoured diplomacy based around the faction's core ideals - I appreciate that this is in the game, but at present in the early game you are more likely to be the targhet of animus than a more pragmatic approach to trading - If the Sophons are light years ahead with tech surely a better trade system would allow for a golden hello"


I've, to my mind, found the diplomacy to be quite flavorful.  The Vodyani won't ally unless you're not a target of their crusade, the  Unfallen prefer to ally, the Riftborn are no pushovers, but if you treat them right, they'll gladly at least declare peace.   Have you tried proactively engaging in diplomacy?   You usually have to bribe factions of relative/stronger strength into peace, from there it's much easier to negotiate trade.


"Allow a more rapid expansion without tanking moral for the player, as this will enable players to get a decent foothold before the AI comes banging on the door. This could be encouraged through the foundation of science/trading/spy/fortified colonies that as long as they focus on the core attributes of the faction for a period of time will not reduce down the moral of the established systems"


My solution to this, and it's worked up to Impossible difficulties, is to use a colossal galaxy.  It may be turn 50 before you even encounter another major faction.   Some of the 'flavor' and 'excitement' present in 4X *is* having no time before the AI comes banging on the door.  If you choose a smaller galaxy, you can expect them to be meeting you quite soon.   I do like the idea of a way to fortify colonies, but that kind of defeats the purpose.   When an AI colonizes within my borders, I like to be able to blockade it to death quickly so I can free my fleet up for the inevitable fallout.


"A series of random, though flavoursome, events that really amplify the nature of each faction. I.e. if you'r playing Sophons double down on the go big or go home research ethos."


Your faction quest triggers quite early, but I do admiit that sometimes there's less randomized events in the beginning.  I'm usually too busy rushing to boost FIDSI and expand to all the tastiest systems to be bothered much with quests in the early game.  I guess we have different apprroaches.   Endless Legend takes longer to expand in, there's more of a personal feel to each settlement you have, ES2 (especially on larger maps) demands a certain speed to growth, or you'll get left behind.   That's why I haven't mastered the Unfallen yet.

Updated 6 years ago.
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6 years ago
Jan 21, 2019, 4:59:58 PM

I think for me, especially having played Stellaris and Orion, is that the early game has to have a hook to keep you engaged enough for the mid to late game content. I replayed both ES2 and EL last night, and it is noticable that while ES2 is a real rush to colonise ASAP, if you do so you are penalised from an output POV, while the AI seems to do so with impunity (this was on normal). With EL you have a more narrative approach that allows the player to explore, take in the seasons, and actively engage with the world, while also expanding.


IMO what Stellaris does right is allow you to craft your empire without having to worry too much about declarations of war. Personally I like to played without the fear of having to waste resources on building a massive fleet just on the off-chance that someone is going to declare war on me. For ES2 this may be an issue given the nature of 4X games, but with the diplomatic and science victories there is at least a theoretical possibility that you can go the whole game without having to fight a single battle. I would love there to be an option through which this could be a practical game where you could devote all your time and resources to peaceful endevours without so much as a military ship in sight.


That said, I go back to my original idea of more factional differentiation at the beginning of the game, allowing for each faction's start to feel really unique and different, which in turn would encourage players to try different tactics early doors.

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6 years ago
Jan 22, 2019, 1:47:49 AM
rejs7 wrote:


which in turn would encourage players to try different tactics early doors.


Maybe "early doors" is a typo, right?


Everything you said up until the last sentence was great, coherent, had good grammar and I'm totally on your side, but I'm not quite sure what you mean at the end.

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6 years ago
Jan 22, 2019, 1:30:11 PM
BeatYourHeadIn wrote:


Maybe "early doors" is a typo, right?


Everything you said up until the last sentence was great, coherent, had good grammar and I'm totally on your side, but I'm not quite sure what you mean at the end.

Its an English turn of phrase that I kinda of repurposed to mean at the beginning of the game, lol.

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6 years ago
Jan 24, 2019, 3:19:57 AM

LOL right. Well, that I understand! Please do have pity on a poor linguistically lacking Canadian that is me. hehehe

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