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Sub-Queues (Build Lists) for the build Queues

System ManagementGUI

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5 years ago
Sep 11, 2019, 3:32:33 PM

I'm not sure the best GUI way to implement this, but the ability to save your current build queue as a buildable items for other systems. Items unavailable in a particular system will be skipped/deleted automatically.


Potentially having a dummy system/interface where everything you have unlocked and available to build is shown.


This allows players a couple different options and addresses a couple of the ideas I just saw (just got here).


Regarding the idea someone had (forcing infinite building items / resource conversion items to the bottom of the build queue) - this allows the build queue to be managed more easily later in the game by dragging the infinite build item above or below a build list instead of many items (including scrolling the queue).


Regarding the idea someone had (building a single ship on infinite repeat) this actually allows for the creation of a fixed fleet design with a certain selection/ratio of ships with a command point amount. You can set it and forget it. When the build queue is complete and you have an entire fleet ready to go you'll get a notification of the empty build queue on that planet and see your fleet in hangar.


The reason I like this idea is that when you colonize planets in the mid and late game, you can have a build queue ready to go for fresh planets/systems and you don't have to multi-click the same pattern into each build queue as your empire expands.


It also acts a little bit like a workaround if you're not going to implement custom sorting or filtering of the improvements list in systems. I'd personally like it sortable by industry requirement, although that's a bit off-topic.

Updated 4 months ago.
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5 years ago
Sep 11, 2019, 9:18:31 PM

I like that idea and had a very simmilar one before (programmable automatic instead of resource type focused), but didn't put it on here due to some problems I couldn't rid the concept of. First and foremost: strategic and luxury resources, they limit how much you can que at once (with your idea) or what systems would be prioritized or resources safed for ahead of time (with my version), then how to implement the dumy system (minor problem with main question where to put the icon) and some things that I don't remember right now since it's nearly midnight and I'm quite tired...

If you can find a solution to the first problem and don't run into one of those I've forgot then it's a great idea!

edit1: ps if you like my idea with the ship build looping, then please click the upvote button (that adds your points on top of mine onto the idea and increases the chance of being read and/or regarded by Amplitude)

edit2: I've just remembered one problem: special tecs that use up population and are repeatable like Horation forign population to main population, Hissho ritual, Unfallen guardian harvest or the population to troops tec, it's less problematic with your idea but how to prevent them from reducing a population to 0 or below any other specific value? also unic tecs that produce population like Riftborn or the Vodyani could also be problematic...

Updated 5 years ago.
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5 years ago
Sep 12, 2019, 1:25:45 AM

@raffelon - that's a relatively simple thing to get past. Currently the build queue takes the resources required at the time the item is put into the queue. However if you set a system to automation it only adds one thing at a time. The back-end support for a build list could essentially be a really stupid automation that adds the next item on the list (if criteria and resources are met) or otherwise skips to the next item on the list. When it reaches the end of the list it stops adding more items - like an automation that turns itself off.


I didn't really intend for there to be a dummy system in reality. Just a button on the system screen that opens a list of all available improvements - irrespective of whether they're available for that system or not - to be added to a 'build list' so that it can be saved.


I get that part of it is GUI programming, and part of it is backend programming. I'm only really contributing a design idea.

Updated 5 years ago.
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5 years ago
Sep 12, 2019, 12:26:34 PM

I understand how you mean the first part, but the problem is that I want it to build that very strategic resource heavy wonder first instead of many 5 reasource each improvements that'll delay the wonder over 20 turns and then someone else build it first. I hope that helps you understand what I meant with it, if we'd add an aditional safe resources for this build first priority list and a use resources on those systems first priority list, then those 3 lists or that one 3 (rather 4 due to 3 being the orders and 1 what is in that order) dimensional array (only important if you want to know how to programm it, also possible are 3 1 dimensional arrays or 1 3 dimensional array for build, order, priority and one 1 dimensional array for order of sytems) would become to complicated for most to use...


I would make that list always in form of a dummy system that can opened through some menue, due to it being the most intuitive way to set those things in an order and it wouldn't require much programming due to: copy paste a system, remove all fidsi, remove all planets, unlock all tecs, load list into auto AI or new systems as it fits.


ps. now I finally start to think that this could have a chance, but the priority problem needs a solution still

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5 years ago
Sep 12, 2019, 12:27:27 PM

also you've got my name wrong

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5 years ago
Sep 12, 2019, 8:58:22 PM

@raffelon sorry for the typo in your name.


Rather than making a dimensional array as you suggest, if one were to do development to that depth of calculation, one may as well just calculate the build length for the entire build queue using every possible combination of build orders and calculating (a) the increased industry from improvements, (b) the increased population from growth, (c) the increased productivity of each pop unit as a result of improvements - thereby calculating the shortest time to build all items in the queue. But such a change would alter how the player interacts with the system which is why I didn't suggest it in the first place... instead of a quality of life improvement that reduces micromanagement, without taking any strategic elements out of the player's hands.


The only aspect of what you've said not covered is wanting the Wonder built first. You could theoretically add the Wonder to be the first item of a build list... but there's no reason to add a Wonder to "bundled" improvements or ships since they're a once-per-empire item anyway, and in fact can only be in one queue at a time. So imagine that you did have a Wonder bundled as the first improvement in a build list - adding that list to a system while that Wonder is already being built elsewhere would only cause it to be skipped anyway, because it's an invalid build item for that system - irrespective of whether the resources are available or not. (Moreover, resource management on an empire-wide level does seem like a strategic element that should be left in the hands of players.)



Updated 5 years ago.
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5 years ago
Sep 13, 2019, 9:39:09 AM

it's more like: I have 20 resource, the wonder takes 60, the AI would build 4 improvements that take 5 each on random systems out of at least 50 that I own, I don't mind adding it manually, but I can't if I don't have enough resources. (this even makes problems if it's only a one time paste and even more if it's automatic)

I can't make it more descriptive to tell you how exactely I meant this and yes I really don't want the auto mode to make the "creative" decisions because that would turn the "human" player into an AI player and voids every reason to play in the first place so it should always be a list that the player configures and for the "order of systems" part: let's say I have between 50 and 100 systems including one with only a gas planet that I took because it was free and a good one in the middle of enemy territory that I got for ending the war, now I want to make the system in enemy territory very strong, especially influence wise for pressure reasons and to possibly convert other systems later. I want it to epecially get the percentage influence building that takes some strategic resources but as I have the other one for longer it tries to build it there first, even though it's pretty much useless and I can't afford 2 of them, so I have to wait until I get enough resources again. (like mentioned before it's not as much of a problem for a one time paste)

Updated 5 years ago.
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5 years ago
Sep 13, 2019, 9:51:21 AM

ps. wonders would only need to be on the list so that the list knows that it's waiting for them to be build or buildable before it uses resources on other things

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5 years ago
Sep 13, 2019, 9:54:36 AM

oh and for the system order it could suffice if they could be classified as low important, normal importand, high important and probably critical (and resources would be safed for higher importancy classes first)

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5 years ago
Sep 14, 2019, 4:01:51 AM

Or you could accomplish the same thing by creating multiple build lists. One with solely industry as a resource, one with Hyperium/Titanium included, etc. 


You still have complete control because now you create the lists. When you queue a list of say, 4 improvements, it's no different than adding them currently, except you don't need to queue resources (theoretically) until you get to that item. If you don't have the resources, that item is skipped. This doesn't turn the human player into an AI in any way. Maybe only one strategic resource is rare in your empire - leave those items out of the build lists. Or only use build lists with solely industry requiring improvements... or don't even use them at all - nothing about this requires taking anything away from the player. You can continue to micromanage as much as you want.


If you're a situation such as you suggest - "now I want to make the system in enemy territory very strong, especially influence wise for pressure reasons and to possibly convert other systems later" - then I would suggest you use a buyout mechanic to bring it to the fore in a couple turns. If you're attention is that strongly focused on an isolated system surrounded by hotile influence then you're likely going to manage that system very intently.


"I want it to epecially get the percentage influence building that takes some strategic resources but as I have the other one for longer it tries to build it there first, even though it's pretty much useless and I can't afford 2 of them, so I have to wait until I get enough resources again." Besides the fact that I don't believe there is a unique improvement that increases influence area for a system, having a percentage system or preferential ranking system for system queues and the allocation of strategic resources completely changes how resources are allocated. Currently they're taken from an accumulated amount and spent on things the player has chosen (mostly ships and improvements). I wouldn't know where to begin to implement this idea and rework resources, but it sounds like turning the player into an AI, which you said you didn't want to do. Basically I come back to - don't queue a unique improvement in a system you don't want it built in.


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5 years ago
Sep 14, 2019, 12:30:35 PM

There are two but both not uniqe, still they take some rarer resources: 25 antimatter or 25 quadrinix and I'm normally low on those, well probably not on quadrinix anymore due to the rebalancing that I can't speed up my fleets that much anymore... Also in the playthrough that I took as example the most, I've used heroes to increase my system maximum, so I nearly exclusively used dust to buy more and faction affinity was gene hunter so I can't use influence for buyout, that would also not make much sense because my population generates enough industry to build most before I have full ownership and I still want everything buildable build on the bad system, just later than the good ones. Mostly I was in a war and system take for break cycle with 2 to 4 alliances and have easily ofer 6 new sytems to improve at the same time. But this shouldn't be about why I want/need this or how to manualy get around, this should be about the technical possibility of getting this theoretical new tool to not waste strategic resources where it's not wanted. Because if I still have to go through all systems manually, then I'm back to my over 1 hour turns that can reach up to multiple hours... (and yes, that's the for me way to comon situation where I wish for such a tool)


The idea with the two lists is good but I'd forget what systems I used what list on, so it helps but doesn't erase the problem completely and the skipping only amplifies the having to check all systems again if it doesn't try again automatically.

It'd still be good as the base idea of starting a new system with base improvements, so I'm not saying that it'd be useless or such, it's still a good idea. (had to write this because all my comments together feel a bit to negative and that's not what I try to say)

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5 years ago
Mar 25, 2020, 12:01:04 PM

I agree completly; that would actually make things... well; not exactly easier or anything; just comfortable!
Less clicking all over the place to set your desired custom queue or whatever it may be.

And this shouldn't actually be too hard to do either.

I recently got into the Endless universe so I havn't started modding etc yet (if it's even possible to touch game-'settings' like that when modding.

Anyays +1

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