Logo Platform
logo amplifiers simplified

Add Hero Abilities to Combat, or Bring back godlike Hero Powers.

GUIGame optionsScreenSpace BattlesMilitaryAcademyHeroes

Reply
8 years ago
Jan 4, 2017, 6:11:44 AM

In endless space you gained the ability to reinforce, empower or defend yourself as well as the ability to disrupt your enemies weapons and defenses through the use of cards.


Now I understand that essentially we have done away with that for now, but I still miss the near god like manipulation of Dust from Hero commanders. Where your empire was technical in its use of dust, Hero's were magical. Where an empire would reinforce armor, Heroes would build a wall, where empires would improve accuracy, Heroes would enchant weapons, where empires would jam weapons, Heroes would form gravity wells in the midst of the enemy forces.


These abilities had a cost in dust. That's how powerful they were you needed to pay to use them.


What I am asking is how do you feel about bringing them back, If a fleet has a Hero commander a player, in possibly the advanced menu of the combat setup screen, can select a single ability to be deployed during the fight. 


The ability selection will depend on the race level and class of hero, starting at 3 and cumulating in 12 abilities per max rank hero, 4 general, 4 racial, and 4 based on there class.


On the surface it appears to be a lot, four classes of hero's, eight major factions, minor's are currently lumped into a single hero faction but that could change, plus the general hero pool makes 56 different powers in 36 combinations.


These abilities would have a Dust cost, but could also have a cost in Strategic Resources, limiting some abilities use to the later era's if so decided upon. The dust cost alone would be high because instead of three cards in ES1 you get a single choice in ES2.


Another variable to discuss is the timing of when an ability goes off, as well as how long it lasts. It could be at the beginning of a match just after setup, or it could go off depending on which formation you decided on, making the ability go off later. 


The ability would come from the hero ship, so which lane it is in could also be a factor, whether it is an area effect or a divisional effect.


These abilities/powers would initially come from the ES1 cards, emp, gravity well, dust warheads and armor, decoy. But we would need to add to them, Racial specific powers and Class specific powers. 


Craver powers that may consume ships for boosts and healing, there's and yours. Vodyani that could use Virtual like attacks and actually gain essence from a battle. Lumeris could just up and jack a ship or bribe it off, forcing it out of battle and maybe into your own side. Sophon's would have all the real shiny science abilities, Experementals that could backfire onto your own side. United Empire could force fleets to fight or some sort of Shock and Awe attack.


Please discuss and vote.

Updated 13 days ago.
0Send private message

Out of Vision

The OUT OF VISION status is given by the dev team to ideas that are not compatible with their vision of the game or technically not feasible.

The-Cat-o-Nine-Tales

DEV The-Cat-o-Nine-Tales

status updated 5 years ago

While we agree that heroes should have a strong impact on the outcome of battles, we ultimately decided that permanent bonuses from hero skills fit better into the core design of Endless Space 2's combat system.

Comments

Reply
Copied to clipboard!
8 years ago
Jan 4, 2017, 6:29:41 PM

This is an interesting set of suggestions, particularly the last which is very reminiscent of the Sheredyn faction affinity. Given that the UE has the option of developing along a 'Sheredyn' pathway, it's entirely possible that they might end up with that forced combat bonus, and I wonder about how faction quests and technologies will play into combat generally. 

With combat in its current state and slated for an upgrade in the next update, the impact of something like this is hard to quantify, but I like the idea of giving godlike Dust powers to Heroes (reminds me of force-users in Star Wars, too) and would like to see something like this in the final product.

0Send private message
8 years ago
Jan 5, 2017, 10:52:21 AM

I will now talk about possible Hero abilities, starting with general powers that all Hero's will share, then the four class power sets, and then the racial power sets because not all major races have been revealed yet.


Each hero will get three powers for each tier of abilities unlocked, so they will always start with the first three powers of each type on a level 1 Hero, and five points later when the next tier unlocks they get the next three and so on. During this part I will provide more that four options if possible because of future releases and mechanic changes may invalidate or overpower the ability used giving an unfair or useless advantage, as well as a variety of choice and discussion.


General Hero powers will be the simplest or the most forward of choices, no drawbacks to using them but providing a moderate boon, and will be the cheapest costing abilities of the three sets. These abilities will be focused on direct Dust manipulation:


Dust Protection: A field of Dust will emanate from your fleet reducing the damage of projectile, laser and beam weapons and causing damage to torpedo's, fighter and bomber crafts.


Dust Corruption: A caustic bubble of Dust will fling itself towards the enemy division, reducing defenses by (one quarter?/one third?/one half?) and weapons fire by same/less.


Dust Decoy: False hulls made from Dust will appear next to your forces, drawing fire but with only (a quarter/an eighth/one?) hitpoint.


Dust Augment: Weapons and fighter craft have increased damage and fire rate and in the case of torpedo's and fighter's/bombers hit points by (10%/20%/25%?)


Dust Strike: A bolts of Dust is fired from the hero ship against the largest unit fielded in each division causing damage equal to (1 quarter/1 eighth) hero ship hitpoints X Command Points of fielded fleet.


Dust Heal: Dust stores on ship are used to provide healing over time, equivalent to 40% healing over the course of the combat.


Dust Redirect: Through a complicated series of Dust made reflective surfaces, electro-gravitic eddies and downright physical hacking, (one quarter/one third) of incoming fire is redirected away and (one third/one eighth) is reflected back at the enemy forces.


-----------


I think that is a good enough start on the General powers, lets move onto Class powers. The classes are Guardian, Overseer, Seeker and Counselor.  I am doing it in this order simply because I am having the damndest time thinking of combat abilities for these classes, although there is a general description for each, the first two being more fleet focused and the last two more empire focused, and there are trees of buffs to choose from in each, none provides a clear roll to there actions in actual combat except for the mild damage or defense boost here and there.


Class Powers will be of middle cost, and provide greater effects than general abilities, but still providing a stable base to choose from. Mild downsides may be included in these powers use.


It is at this point Abilities/Powers may begin to cost Strategic Resources to use as well as dust. Whether this cost scales with fleet size is up for debate.


--------------

We will start with Guardian, possibly the most defense focused class name, but proactive at it.


Guardian Shield: A barrier of temporary hitpoints covers each ship in the fleet, requiring to be broken before damage to the ship can be done. Possible downside: Accuracy penalty shooting through the shield, missiles unaffected.


Guardian Taunt: Ships with greater current hitpoints attract fire a lot more forcing the enemy forces to keep changing targets keeping more of your forces active.


Guardian Mines: Guardians choose the battlefield wisely, and prepare it accordingly. The field is littered with friendly mines and traps, Limpets and Bomb Pumped energy weapons are stealthed and scattered around. Downside: material cost on this one is really high.


Guardian Interrupt: The Guardian ship emits a pulse directed at the enemy fleet, If the enemy fleet has a hero that hero's ability is canceled, cost not refunded. If no hero then enemy weapons and flak are deactivated for 1/3 round.


Guardian Reinforcements: Guardians rally friends to there cause, an additional force equal to 1/3'rd the fleets CP made of Academy ships (matching hero ship type) will fly in and preform a quick high-speed strafing attack on the enemy forces, using same loadout as hero ship. Disadvantage cost will be high and require influence to cast, cost scales on fleet size.


Guardian Gunboat's: A Guardian knows talent when they see it. A small cadre of elite pilot/gunner pairs that are equipped with oversized strike craft bristling with turrets and missile launchers are launched to your forces aid. (Think GunStar One from The Last Starfighter.)


Guardian Feint: The best part of fighting is fighting another day, and the Guardian knows this, In an effort to slip a blockade the fleet will only fight a half round before abruptly warping out. Downside strike craft will not launch if picked.


----


Next is Overseer, a more Admiral like name, and will be given a more offensive focus with Powers buffed by large fleet sizes for the purpose of this section.


Overseer Barrage: The Overseer commands more out of his fleets weapon officers and doubles the fire rate of his ships. Downside limited duration, possible overheat damage.


Overseer Wings: Sometimes the answer is simply "More Ships" in a given situation. 50% increase in strike craft quantity launched. Downside: Strategic cost increase.


Overseer Tactical Strike: Sometimes the answer is simply to Bomb them. A warhead is launched from the hero ship against the parallel or closest division of ships to cause massive damage to the entire sub-force. Downside incredible cost to use.


Overseer Shell Break:  The tastiest meet is generally the hardest to get to. A wave of energy washes over the enemy forces, disabling shields and sundering armor.


Overseer Overkill: There is no such thing but this gets damn close, the Overseer deploys Harrington-class ordnance pods from this ships (2 from small/3-4 medium/5-6 large) each carrying 4 torpedo's of best era to be simultaneously fired evenly upon the enemy fleet. Downside high cost of materials. Lag from awesome amount of ordnance fired at once. 


Overseer Sunomata: Through a miracle of stealth, guile, and prefab automation the Overseer has built a heavy defensive structure within range of the enemy defense forces without notice. The station is equivalent to 1/3'rd all forces in combat (or two thirds of stationary defenses if added to the game), and is involved in all fights that take place in this star system. Weapon load equivalent to one large ship broadside and armed with all weapons of best unlocked era, CP cost determines hitpoints of hull and fire rate of weapons. Can only be used when attacker. Disadvantage: Not only is there a massive cost in setup, but the per turn cost of a unit whos CP could be astronomical depending on forces at the point, essentially all the defenses of a system without the system income to support it.


-----


Seeker is the next up, bringing up images of searching, pursuit, and hunting, Accuracy and Evasion will be the focus on this set.


Seeker Aim: A Seeker's uncanny understanding of kinemetry and sensors grant them the ability to make there fleets weapons both more accurate and of being fired at a longer range, all weapons move up a point in accuracy and can be used at an additional range, missiles gain short and beams gain medium. (this may change depending on Update 2)


Seeker Evade: Ships begin shifting randomly in there courses, throwing off the aim of enemy fire.


Seeker First Strike: By changing the vector coming out of superluminal velocities your forces gain a surprise close range attack during the setup phase of battle before taking your normal positions.  Downside a possible ship collision at this speed will most likely destroy both ships regardless of size. Requires Strategic Resources to use.


Seeker Shadows: Through the clever use of projected em fields the seeker cloaks friendly bombers, granting them speed as well as an unimpeded first strike against enemy shipping.


Seeker Beast: A Seeker finds many wondrous things in there travels, some of them are filled with teeth and claws. A group of Space Monsters appears in close range of the enemy and attempts to fight/eat one of the ships pulling it out of combat. Downside they are not really on your side, there just hungry.


Seeker Caltrops: Some people do not want to be followed, a Field of Counterspace Anchors are launched into the enemy space, halting movement of all inside the field. Effect persists out of combat on that force for three turns or until a repair is paid for. 


Seeker Unerring Strikes: The Seeker hunts big game, main weapons are shut down as all power is put into a large unique weapon allowing it to snipe and destroy small ships in single hits. limited to 6 shots, will kill a small in one, a medium in three and a large in six. Downsides, high cost, chance of hero ship disabling for rest of combat.


-----


Counselor; I must be honest I'm running out of ideas at this point for not general/not racial powers, this may be the dump stat of choices. We have covered Offence, Defense and what could be described as rouge skills. Counselor's are diplomatically inclined, war is just another form of diplomacy. This class may use influence instead of dust to activate actions.


Counselor Peace: Through oratory skill and a few bribes, no battle will happen today, a single token volley will be fired by both sides at long range and combat will cease.


Counselor Recruitment: Charisma alone and a good tailor lets you convert the opposing division to your side, sowing chaos for the other side. Does not work if there is only a single division.


Counselor Faith on the Run: On the strength of faith alone in there hero ships fight better, hit harder, and last longer. Even if there not actually there. Friendly hero ship retreats from battle unscathed, leaving the boosted fleet to its fate.


Counselor Final Option: The use of Strategic Weapons is strictly controlled, and you happen to have a copy of the codes. Massive explosions rock the battlefield damaging, crippling, and destroying all involved.


Counselor Siege Parade: In a debatable action, all divisions have been formed into a single massive force, granting amazing damage resistance simply by rotating ships out of the way when there defenses are low and boosting short range damage immensely from sheer numbers alone.


-----


Honestly I am a bit burned out by that, will attempt Racial Powers after a break. 





Updated 8 years ago.
0Send private message
8 years ago
Jan 5, 2017, 4:21:58 PM

Racial Powers:

These are powers that come form the species themselves, a combination of cultural and biological capabilities that cannot be duplicated by others. These will be the highest cost powers as well as the most powerful, and in many cases major drawbacks will be evident.


We are starting with the so called Scavenger faction, as it is currently the grab bag title of all minor race Heroes at this time (Update 1) and to get it out of the way of the Major Factions. Because it embodies all races and is worded like survivors of a great calamity an attempt will be made to pick powers that are somewhat better that outright piracy.


Scavenger Scrap Field: Scavengers know where all the great battles took place, and efforts are made to move the fight there amongst the old salvage, enemy fleets unfamiliar with the terrain will have a reduced fire rate due to needing to check there targets between wrecks and active ships, friendly forces will be unimpeded. 


Scavenger Good Find: You would be amazed what falls off the back of a trade ship, old but reliable automated defense ships are released from your ships hulls, one defense ship is released per ship in your fleet, equivalent to a small defense ship with a single laser weapon. No armor or shield and half the hit points of a normal small ship.


Scavenger Custom Job: Nothing like a little paint and engine work to make your fleet the envy of other forces. Increased dodge, 40% resistance to laser and beam weapons, Spoiler.


Scavenger Resurrection: In these days of conflict salvaging is more farming than luck, knowing how to make something work immediately is important. Any ship destroyed in combat is brought back to life at 1/3'rd hp on friendly side.


Scavenger Plating: Storage is at a premium on a ship, unless you have rope. bundles of "found" material are strapped to the outside of the ship, forming an additional layer of hull, acting as temporary hit points equivalent to one quarter ship hp. 


-----


Not my best on that I admit. Moving on to the Major know races. That's currently Craver, Lumeris, Vodyani, Sophon and United Empire. This should be easier to do given there is much more lore and practice using these races to come up with some decent powers.


-----


Craver, everyone's favorite weaponized locust swarm, always hungry. Powers should be aimed more at consuming, both the enemy and yourself, as well as swarms.


Craver Swarm: A Large group of space optimized craver and cover the ship, providing a small bit of resistance as incoming fire hit them first. At close range craver will leap off your ship and begin to consume the enemy ships from the hull down, doing massive DoT. After battle ships are healed according to how much damage was done this way.


Craver Bite: A close range attack, Grabbing and disabling a ship and quickly striping it down for materials on the way out of the battle.


Craver Fear: A transmission is broadcast to the enemy fleet showing you eating one of there race, still alive. Terror grips some of the enemy captains and they emergency FTL right then and there.


Craver Waves: No craver is alone, small groups of small vessels keep making short range high speed attacks against your enemies, doing damage and drawing fire.


Craver Castle: In an unexpected move any division at half strength is replaced with a division at highest strength, breaking target locks and sowing confusion.


Craver Feast: We will feed, opposing division is consumed. Just gone, not keel or bone remain.


I think others can come up with better options, was never a big craver player myself.


-----


Sophon, the classic science alien, big eyes, big head, tenure for each citizen, crazy experimental, and there powers need to reflect that.


Sophon Shrink Ray: Modifying the spatial geometry of the unwilling has always been difficult, but with a warships targeting array it has never been easier! Enemy forces are shrunk, doing half damage and receiving double damage against them. Potential to backfire and shrink friendly fleet.


Sophon Wormhole Generator: The ability to move wherever we want like stepping through a door would be marvelous if we actually got to choose the destination. More unwilling test subjects! A division of the enemy fleet is removed from combat and randomly sent to any point in the galaxy. Potential to backfire and send hero division somewhere else.


Sophon Fission Initiator: The ability to split atoms at a distance no matter the material is amazing. That toast never saw it coming, and nether will our enemies! A flashlight-like beam strikes out causing an enemy ship to burn in a nuclear explosion sort of way, causing massive damage over time, sweeping from ship to ship as each perish. Potential to turn hero division to Instant-Toast.


Sophon Electro-Quantum Wave Former: A true miracle of science, a speaker that can transmit sound through space! Now to turn it to 11! Thousand!! Many waves of energy emanating from the fleet towards the enemy, destroying torpedo's, strike craft, and sundering armor on ships causing moderate damage. Potential to cause feedback, shattering armor and shield and reducing the rate of fire as everyone onboard clutches there head in pain.


Sophon Stimulant Beverage: Makes a good chaser to a Pan-Galactic Gargle-Blaster! Makes people capable of modifying shield harmonics in real time by hand! Increases shield power by a factor of five! Potential to cause cardiac arrest, killing half your fleets manpower.


Sophon Reality Shifter: Getting board fighting the same fleet over and over again, well no more, as the same technology to control your entertainment can now be used to control the universe! Swaps ships to different race of a previous tech era. Possibility of hitting skip back by accident and returning hero fleet to tech one equivalent ships and firepower.


I'm having too much fun with this I will move on to the next race.


-----


Vodyani! Church of the space vampire, Their ability to harvest people for essence, live forever on ark's, and colonize an entire system with just three units of people is astounding. Broken as hell on system defense but whatever.


Vodyani Hymn: Through the Virtual Endless we call forth a bulwark of our faith, a shield covers the entire fleet that has the exact same hitpoints as all the shields in the fleet combined. 


Vodyani Tithe: Provide for the Church, and the Church will still smite you. Gain influence and dust for each ship destroyed, unless Vodyani in which case gain essence.


Vodyani Bolt of Cloth:  To be wrapped in the warmth of our Faith. For a limited time any energy damage is instead healing the ship instead of damaging it.


Vodyani Summons: There are still some active Virtual Relics around, summon a Virtual Cruiser division to assault the enemy. Will not stay for long on the field.


Vodyani Blessing of Ascendance: Any ship in your fleet that hits zero hit points during combat is not actually destroyed until the end of combat or all ships are disabled. An ascended ship cannot be targeted but can still fire any energy weapons mounted on it at half damage. At the end of combat the ascended ship fades away in a glow. If Vodyani gain Essence. 


Vodyani Censure: A beam of golden light hits the enemy formation and burns it till dead. If Vodyani this attack costs Essence and the attack hits the entire fleet instead of a single division.


Racial harmonized abilities may be something to think about in the future.


-----


Lumeris. Traders, bankers, moneymakers, The Families. They will buy you, rob you, beat you, and then sell your corpse as a decorative throw pillow to your own family. The seafood is amazing.


Lumeris Commercial Sponsor: During the middle third of combat both sides will stop firing, we will take that opportunity to repair our ships while they watch a commercial for shrimp taco's. Both sides gain dust based on how many ships are destroyed, friendly fleet repairs 30% of hp.


Lumeris Raid: Preps ships for close range combat, when close ships resistance to all damage will go up and boarders will attack enemy ships, stealing everything that is not bolted down. Gain dust after combat.


Lumeris Repossession: Preps ship for medium range combat, when at medium range boarding craft full of knock out gas and engineers board and capture the ship, taking everything and the kitchen sink. Choice after combat to either keep the ships captured or sell them for dust.


Lumeris Offer You Cannot Refuse: You take the enemy hero. I know right? You know what's worse? For the next ten turns they are still paying for there upkeep! Aren't contracts grand?


Lumeris Wholesale Fleet: Gain a six-pack of small ships for each division for this combat, goes back in the box right after... you know that drops the value!


Lumeris Insurance Claim: The enemy ships have been insured, with both a high payout and high explosives. Enemy division is destroyed and you gain dust equivalent to buy cost of enemy ships. 


Lumeris Hit: It is time to sweep this problem under the rug, ships turn broadside and gain double fire rate and are considered in optimal range. Projectile weapons gain triple fire rate.


They are fun to create as well as the Sophons. Needs to be a bit more godfather-ey I think.


-----


United Empire, start at royalty and go all the way down to unpaid intern. But they don't need money, there influence is power enough to make things happen and power is what they will produce.


United Empire Artillery Support: What's the point of having all these tanks in our hold if we don't get to use them? Additional guns roll out onto the hull, matching ship arsenal but at half strength and range.


United Empire Iron Will: In order to increase working hours, the outside of the ship has been covered in a layer of cheap iron to keep people from going home. Increases armor by 35%. Disables Strike Fighters. 


United Empire The Axe: An addition to the prow of our ships, an axe head, but instead of ramming our ships into the enemy, they are infact giant suicide drones. Will sunder armor and cause massive damage.


United Empire Workers Paradise: Why should you be away from your family? By making things more entertaining, even your children can operate heavy weapons systems for the Empire! Accuracy and fire rate are increased massively. 


United Empire Transforming Fighters: Based on transmissions of some entertainment program, your fighter and bombers have been temporarily replaced at great expense with fighters that can transform into mechanoids! Isent that great? Strike Craft gain 300% to stats but only half as many units are fielded.


United Empire Superbeam: The power to destroy a ship is insignificant compared to the power of the SuperBeam! A lot cheaper but look at the Mahogany on it! Single use beam strike at long range, massive damage.


United Empire Sheredyn Honor: No you do not get to skip combat, you get to fight here and now, and die with effing honor. Lazy sods leaving as soon as combat starts.....


I think that is enough for now. Any commentary on this would be great.










Updated 8 years ago.
0Send private message
8 years ago
Jan 25, 2017, 7:13:28 AM

If anyone has any ideas for Horatio Heroes abilities I'd love to hear them. 

0Send private message
8 years ago
Feb 8, 2017, 6:20:21 PM

For the Horatio, they always seem so cautious due to there vanity. I would be interesting to see abilities where they overcome there vanities and push their genetically "perfect" selves to the limit at some sacrifice. Something like "Breaking the Mirror."



Just a though. Hopefully a catalyst for other great ideas.

0Send private message
8 years ago
Feb 13, 2017, 6:31:04 AM

The ES1 Dust powers for Heroes really made it worth considering whether you want your Heroes to keep the hearth fires burning, or get out there with a fleet and burn a few worlds instead...

0Send private message

Nice to have

The NICE TO HAVE status is given by the dev team to ideas they would like to have in the game.

SpaceTroll

DEV SpaceTroll

status updated 7 years ago

Heroes should definitely have their own unique way of influencing the battles
0Send private message
7 years ago
Jul 5, 2017, 7:55:51 AM

I have to support this idea, heroes seem a bit lackluster now, more like passive bonuses to systems and the first thing that dies in my fleet (in late stages of the game). This idea would fix a lot of those issues. Upvote!

0Send private message

Out of Vision

The OUT OF VISION status is given by the dev team to ideas that are not compatible with their vision of the game or technically not feasible.

The-Cat-o-Nine-Tales

DEV The-Cat-o-Nine-Tales

status updated 5 years ago

While we agree that heroes should have a strong impact on the outcome of battles, we ultimately decided that permanent bonuses from hero skills fit better into the core design of Endless Space 2's combat system.

0Send private message
?

Click here to login

Reply
Comment