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7 years ago
May 30, 2017, 4:07:39 PM

The conquest of the system lasts about 2-5 turns and looks quite unintelligible, so I suggest:

1) Remove the all-imperial configuration of the ground army and make the configuration of the composition separately in the system for each planet. Accordingly, for the attackers to form a combat group at the beginning of the ground operation. Initially, to give access to all types of troops. Technologies can reduce penalties from the type of planets or be able to use where it was not possible (for example, air troops on barren planets).



2) When you press the "ground invasion" button, open the strategy window, which determines the composition of the combat group and the choice of the planets for the attack, that is, choose between the attack with all the forces one planet, divide troops into two planets or attack all. The composition of the defending forces approximately (+ - 30%) can be learned with the help of probes of research ships (otherwise the composition is unknown). Show the results of the battle on all the planets in one window.


Here a sketch:


     а) Attack to one planet with all forces,               

 


     b) dividing forces to two planet with different composition of troops,


     c) after clicking "Begin invasion", the tactics selection screen is displayed.

     

       d) battle results screen.


       e) Some thoughts about reconnaissance probes.



3) If you successfully capture one of the planets of the system, choose the next option for the combat group, that is, either attack the next planet, dig in (to counter counterattack defenders), recruit volunteers among the population (effectiveness depends on the level of approval at the time of the invasion), or robbery Improvement and obtaining of dust and a small amount of resources produced on the planet). Accordingly for the defending side - counterattack, guerrilla actions on the captured planet (depends on the recognized at the time of the invasion), or dig (increase hp units).


       а) This screen appears at beginning of next turn after capturing planet.

 

       b) That's what the defender sees at the same time.

       

         c) Tactics for ground battles phase.

 


4) Of course to make planetary effects of impact for planets with a complex surface - for example:




5) Add specialization to the planets that increase the protection of the subdivisions located on it and slightly increase the growth of Man Power.


    a) Small changes on the main screen of the system, 

   

     b) planet military specialization. I think that changing the specialization of the planet for military specialization should be a very costly action. The values of the bonuses are presented for a better understanding. Military specialization will not be automatically replaced (like others) after studying the relevant technologies, this will be dealt with by the player.

   

    c) system defence management, about what I wrote in point 1).


 

6) And of course, the heroes in the orbit of the attacked system must give bonuses to ground units. For example:






Sorry for my English.


Here answers to some questions:

      

      Control over the system only passes after the capture of all the planets. The invasion continues as long as there are at least some units in the system, at this time, what I have described in step 3) occurs. If the war ends (truce) during the invasion, the ground units are evacuated to the nearest friendly system in the transport that is created as when the population is moved from the system to the system, and the returned units are added into the imperial MP pool.



Explanation of the picture in point 2, а):



1) MP of orbiting fleets;

2) This button shows which bonuses are provided to the invading forces by the hero in orbit;

3) This shows the overall MP of the fleets and the planning of the attack;

4) Visual representation of the planet;

5) Information about the planet, the composition of troops and the population.

6) This button is for launching a reconnaissance probe that will give information about the planet (I will write about probes later).

7) This button shows the influence of the planet on the conduct of combat operations (after the launch of the drone more detailed, since unusual anomalies, too, should be influenced in some way).


Later, I'll add a couple more elements to this screen (for example, showing the presence of protective structures, which I'll write about later, too).


Explanation of the picture in point 3, а):


1) Visual representation of  planets, сolor and emblem demonstrates who controls planet.

     a) this button shows the influence of planet on the conduct of combat operations;

     b) this button shows food, science, production, influence, dust income and population. Also the availability of resources and luxury  on this planet.

2) Number of MP and composition of troops on planet, on bars you can adjust the composition of the army.

3) Occupation options:

     a) looting. Player receive dust, resources and luxury (if they exist on planet). Based on planet income and number of MP;

     b) recruitment of volunteers, mercenaries, traitors. Generate MP. Based on planet population and approval raiting. Costs dust;

     c) search and technology gathering. Generate science. Based on planet research income and precense of science improvments on this system.

4) Commands for troops on planet:

     a) attack - moves MP into MP pool;

     b) fortification - troops receive +5% health and +2% damage for every turn of using this option;

     c) retreat - troops leave planet and move to another captured or orbiting fleet. If fleet and captured planets do not remain, create a civilian ship and go to the nearest friendly system - the invasion ends.

5) Heroes on orbing fleets, сhoose who will command and accordingly give their bonuses to ground troops.

6) This button shows bonuses of the hero commander.

7) The total number of MP that can be used to attack.

8) MP on orbiting fleets. 

    a) this button moves MP into MP pool.

9) Information about influence of fleet on ground battles.

10) MP pool - here the direction of attack is determined, the number of troops involved and their composition.

    a)  This button move troops to the planet from MP pool.

11) Information about the planets Antartes II and which is controlled by enemy. Since the reconnaissance drone was not used, little is known (or nothing at all).

12) On Antartes III there is a battle, so there is inaccurate information about planet income.

13) Information about Governor who commander of defense and defense structures.

14) Defence structures bonuses.

15) Visual representation of going battle.

    a) This button launch the reconnaissance drone (If available).

16) MP reserves on enemy fleet.

17) The total number of enemy MP that can be used to counterattack.

18) Last battles report.

19) This button starts the phase of ground battles.


Explanation of the picture in point 3, b):


Everything looks almost same as the attacker's face, except for some important details:


1) Martial Law options:

    a) Support for guerrilla activities on captured planets and special operations - deals guaranteed damage depending on total number of armed forces in  system and an additional based on the amount of population on planet and approval rating.

    b) Strengthening and deepening of defense - 5% attack and 10% health by defending troops for each turn of use of this option.

    c) Accelerated training of troops - + MP, but -5% attack -5% health for each use. Addition MP, is based on the number of people on the planet.

2) Commands for troops on planet:

    Counterattack - moves MP into MP pool

    Readiness for defense - reduces  chances of loss of population and buildings (10%)

    Retreat - troops leave planet and move to another planet. The planet surrenders to invaders. If fleet and planets do not remain, create a civilian ship and go to the nearest friendly system - loss of control over stellar system. If the system has an enemy fleet: -20% MP.

3) Information on the effectiveness of enemy occupation actions.

4) The latest accurate data on number of enemy troops on captured planet.

5) Ongoing battle.

6) Passive hiring to the army. 5 MP per Population.



I created two more ideas strongly connected with this one -

Consequences of a long siege and using "preemptive bombing" and  Population composition of troops.

If interested, please have a look.

Updated 6 days ago.
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Out of Vision

The OUT OF VISION status is given by the dev team to ideas that are not compatible with their vision of the game or technically not feasible.

The-Cat-o-Nine-Tales

DEV The-Cat-o-Nine-Tales

status updated 5 years ago

While we appreciate all the effort you put into designing and presenting this idea, as Dagart mentioned before, this idea is out of vision for Endless Space 2. Though we made some improvements to the ground battles, an invasion system as detailed as your idea would not integrate well with the overall design of Endless Space 2.

We're keeping it in mind for the future, though.

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Wishlisted

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Dagart

DEV Dagart

status updated 7 years ago

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW first of all this is a very very nice design suggestion. thank you so much. Overall it goes out of our visions, but there are quite a few things that could help us to improve the ground battles.
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7 years ago
Jun 28, 2017, 6:24:06 PM

Jep. This would add some real depth! Seems perfect for implementation for a future dlc.

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7 years ago
Jul 4, 2017, 5:14:26 AM

Warning. All this sounds nice, but too much complexity can make the game tedious. All these screens, letters and numbers confusing me.

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7 years ago
Jul 5, 2017, 1:43:38 PM

You put so much work and thought in this, just wow! Hope this gets in the game in some form in further expansions.

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7 years ago
Jul 5, 2017, 1:51:24 PM
VisHeR37 wrote:

You put so much work and thought in this, just wow! Hope this gets in the game in some form in further expansions.

Thanks! A little later I will add more thoughts to this idea. Now I'm working on others.

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7 years ago
Jul 20, 2017, 7:52:46 AM

I really hope that at least some of your concepts will be implemented! They would add so much more depth to the ground invasion

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7 years ago
Jun 9, 2017, 7:00:21 AM

This looks like a great idea. Would really improve and add some needed depth to invasions.

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7 years ago
Jan 26, 2018, 9:19:51 AM
thaelmann wrote:

Wow, this would be so nice. Is there a mod maybe?

I don't know, i have a couple ideas that need to be fulfilled and this idea required some reworking too. So, you can check other my ideas through my profile. Thanks.

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7 years ago
Jan 29, 2018, 8:26:37 PM

This is a very good idea and closer to if we ever get good combat in this game.

I mean generally the combat in this game is nothing more than an afterthought.
I remember the old days of Star Wars Empire at War and yeah it would mean much more work for them with more models, animation, mechanics and stuff for an actual combat system.


Third time maybe its the charm after all :p

Also your presentation is nothing sort of excellent, good job on that!

Updated 7 years ago.
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7 years ago
Feb 26, 2018, 4:11:07 PM

A stop-gap measure to bring much of the benefits of this idea with minimal work is to remove the empire troop-configurations, and just have invasion tactics specify the troop compositions. Many of the tactic effects could be rolled into the troop modifiers (i.e. bombardment damages more infrastructure; use more tanks and aircraft which naturally causes more damage to infrastructure).


This would also remove the dull 'sliders' of manpower composition, while retaining all the same choices during ground battles.

Updated 7 years ago.
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6 years ago
Jun 27, 2018, 3:20:03 AM

Have my support, how has this not been implemented yet?

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6 years ago
Aug 6, 2018, 6:57:34 AM

Wow! this looks amazing! I hope they impliment this as some point, It would make ground battles alot more fun and interesting. not to mention far more stratigic.

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6 years ago
Aug 18, 2018, 8:08:05 PM

Awesome work!!!!


It does seems a little overcomplicated, but i am all in for a simpler version of it! We definetly need a little deeper system than what we currently got.

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Out of Vision

The OUT OF VISION status is given by the dev team to ideas that are not compatible with their vision of the game or technically not feasible.

The-Cat-o-Nine-Tales

DEV The-Cat-o-Nine-Tales

status updated 5 years ago

While we appreciate all the effort you put into designing and presenting this idea, as Dagart mentioned before, this idea is out of vision for Endless Space 2. Though we made some improvements to the ground battles, an invasion system as detailed as your idea would not integrate well with the overall design of Endless Space 2.

We're keeping it in mind for the future, though.

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7 years ago
Jun 1, 2017, 7:36:50 PM

Your English is fine.


This would be awesome. I hope this gets more attention. The ground invasion seemed off compared to space battles. 


I would like to add to your 4th point. Being able to down teraform (e.g. Desert->Ash) in order to provide a boost to defense would be an interesting dynamic. If system improvements (specifically, defeneses) reacted differently to not just the resources available or attributes but planet types would make that a more complex dynamic.

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7 years ago
Jun 1, 2017, 7:48:02 PM
psojourner wrote:

Your English is fine.


This would be awesome. I hope this gets more attention. The ground invasion seemed off compared to space battles. 


I would like to add to your 4th point. Being able to down teraform (e.g. Desert->Ash) in order to provide a boost to defense would be an interesting dynamic. If system improvements (specifically, defeneses) reacted differently to not just the resources available or attributes but planet types would make that a more complex dynamic.

Thanks :)

      It is obvious that changing the type of the planet, you can achieve better defenses at the expense of reduced production. I will add all the new ideas that appeared in the discussion. If you have any questions, ask in the theme of the same name on the sub-forum "game design".



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7 years ago
Jun 2, 2017, 6:27:20 AM

ground combat needs some work and your ideas looks like something that could work.

thanks for sharing your ideas!

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7 years ago
Jun 2, 2017, 8:03:53 AM


Well, I think that the most important changes would be:


1. Ability to manually set the size of garrizon within systems (in scope of fixed amount of resources of course), it would be implemented very simple: you choose between few danger levels: low, medium, severe, critical. AI takes cares about garrizon size, defense buildings (i. e. defense stations, bunkers and shields against bombardment, planetary weapon damaging ships, orbital weapon).


2. There would be resistance points (collecting points to actions, ie. sabotage, rebellion, sow discontent etc.), strength dependent on orignal population and population types (ie. pacifists with penalties, militarists with bonuses). Conqueror would counteract by events.



In general invading should be challanging on mature, well industried and populated planets and should require mobilization of really strong fleet or assaulting ships. Please refer to our Earth - summary strength of all our armies (assuming comparable tech level with invaders) is so strong that invading such planet should be very challenging. We could recruit millions of soldiers if needed, how would you transport such amount of forces? You need advantage in tech/ships/bombardment/planes or very long, devastating siege.


A` propos heroes - imho current system with points is too shallow and requires change asap. If I take xp bonus/turn for heroes, in middle of the game I have all government bonuses filled and further leveling is useless. Such hero must have possibility to spent points on specialization in already taken general skills.


Best regards.


Updated 7 years ago.
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7 years ago
Jun 4, 2017, 9:15:08 AM

This could also lead to orbital cannos that actually damage ships if they are in orbit, so you planets have an actual defense against fleets. It would be a teir 3 tech in the military screen and could greatly increase the defense ablity of certain planets in your emprire. It would also deter pirate fleest that continuosly spawn from entering the system for fear of being targeted. The also would play a pert in the space abttles further giving support tou your fleets. I alwasy felt that the plants felt very easy or very poorly defended or defendable.

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7 years ago
Jun 4, 2017, 10:43:16 AM
Darkvramp wrote:

This could also lead to orbital cannos that actually damage ships if they are in orbit, so you planets have an actual defense against fleets. It would be a teir 3 tech in the military screen and could greatly increase the defense ablity of certain planets in your emprire. It would also deter pirate fleest that continuosly spawn from entering the system for fear of being targeted. The also would play a pert in the space abttles further giving support tou your fleets. I alwasy felt that the plants felt very easy or very poorly defended or defendable.

I have some ideas about space stations, but I'm still busy writing the concept of "systems invasion." All my subsequent ideas will be related to each other, and sooner or later I will describe my vision of the game mechanics "space station".

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7 years ago
Jun 5, 2017, 11:11:25 PM

Ground combat has been somewhat lacking in general in 4X space games. This is what it would take to solve that problem. I absolutely love where your head is at. I'd definitely like to see this level of detail added to ES2 either as a major patch or a DLC (which I'd happily pay for). Seems like this would make the planet killer more useful too, eliminating the specific planet that's holding back an invasion from being successful.

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7 years ago
Jun 1, 2017, 3:32:19 PM

My +1.

Ground battle should be more close to space battles (flotillas and all that). Understand the hands off politics of Amplitude, and at some degree like it, but actual ground battle with RPS system is someway lacking of any depth.

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7 years ago
Jun 6, 2017, 10:54:13 PM

Sounds very well-grounded. Upvoted for sure.

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7 years ago
Jun 7, 2017, 6:41:24 AM

Yes please, the current version is dull and repetitive; when the AI's dozens of tiny fleets start dumping forces on your planets it is oddly tempting to just quit.


Edit: I should mention that your suggestion is excellent, and I've got to congratulate you on a suggestion that is almost ready for implementation as is. 

Updated 7 years ago.
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7 years ago
Jun 7, 2017, 11:45:44 AM
Deadcurze wrote:

Yes please, the current version is dull and repetitive; when the AI's dozens of tiny fleets start dumping forces on your planets it is oddly tempting to just quit.


Edit: I should mention that your suggestion is excellent, and I've got to congratulate you on a suggestion that is almost ready for implementation as is. 

Thank you, glad to hear it :)


I am not finished on idea yet. Just added a couple of new pictures and there is still a little left to do.

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7 years ago
Jun 7, 2017, 12:20:44 PM

Each planet?

Sounds like a great deal of annoying micromanaging.


I am the lazy person that is already slightly annoyed by having to specialize individual planets, over and over for each planet...


Go ahead with it, sure, just make certain I can bypass all the hassle of these micro super fun things for each freaking planet through either AI automation or something like system or empire wide policy.


All in all you put in good effort and it looks feasible, yet I would rather opt out of the provided experience myself.

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7 years ago
Jun 7, 2017, 12:38:57 PM
koxsos wrote:

Each planet?

Sounds like a great deal of annoying micromanaging.


I am the lazy person that is already slightly annoyed by having to specialize individual planets, over and over for each planet...


Go ahead with it, sure, just make certain I can bypass all the hassle of these micro super fun things for each freaking planet through either AI automation or something like system or empire wide policy.


All in all you put in good effort and it looks feasible, yet I would rather opt out of the provided experience myself.

Hello.


Are you about the screen "system defense management"? I thought about automatic distribution of MP based on bonuses and penalties of the planets, and the player can change the distribution himself(player's participation is not so critical). Or some sort of "quick distribution" buttons. After all, if developers like this idea they can optimize management. I'm just doing pictures for the developers and users to better understand the idea.

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7 years ago
Jun 7, 2017, 2:55:36 PM
Greensmokie wrote:
koxsos wrote:

TL:DR Doing stuff for each planet is not a fun and engaging gameplay. I would love to avoid it

Hello.


Are you about the screen "system defense management"? I thought about automatic distribution of MP based on bonuses and penalties of the planets, and the player can change the distribution himself(player's participation is not so critical). Or some sort of "quick distribution" buttons. After all, if developers like this idea they can optimize management. I'm just doing pictures for the developers and users to better understand the idea.


"1) Remove the all-imperial configuration of the ground army and make the configuration of the composition separately in the system for each planet. Accordingly, for the attackers to form a combat group at the beginning of the ground operation."


Hello to you too!


You basically say, you will no longer get away with setting your army to full tanks early with couple clicks in the menu and maybe consider variation lategame.
You will now go to every planet window and micro your turns away in adjusting values for each system so they complement the planet values well, and maybe couple patches later you might get a button to auto do it for you and entire thing just goes back to square one.


I am all for improving the endless guerilla vs conscription all tanks except for few exceptions no-brainer struggle.


But I would probably go entirely different way about it, I would probably try to make a lot more like space battles - unit designs and more cards, maybe even the range system or something more ground-like, but even all this still gets a way with a lot less: "oh boy, I upgraded to a new ground unit, let me go around my systems * 3 - 5 planets and repetitively click up the manpower distribution for each, I am loving this game so much man, this is such an awesome thing to do. I am sorry people, yes this turn will take a couple minutes more I just upgraded the units you know, oh you got it coming up next turn? Maybe I should go make dinner. then..."


My subjective view is I can play away most turns under one or two minutes, this thing makes games with slower people scary. You either make it click heavy, or irrelevant through automation. Both kill most of your idea straight up.

Updated 7 years ago.
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7 years ago
Jun 7, 2017, 3:33:29 PM

Hello to you too!


You basically say, you will no longer get away with setting your army to full tanks early with couple clicks in the menu and maybe consider variation lategame.
You will now go to every planet window and micro your turns away in adjusting values for each system so they complement the planet values well, and maybe couple patches later you might get a button to auto do it for you and entire thing just goes back to square one.


I am all for improving the endless guerilla vs conscription all tanks except for few exceptions no-brainer struggle.


But I would probably go entirely different way about it, I would probably try to make a lot more like space battles - unit designs and more cards, maybe even the range system or something more ground-like, but even all this still gets a way with a lot less: "oh boy, I upgraded to a new ground unit, let me go around my systems * 3 - 5 planets and repetitively click up the manpower distribution for each, I am loving this game so much man, this is such an awesome thing to do. I am sorry people, yes this turn will take a couple minutes more I just upgraded the units you know, oh you got it coming up next turn? Maybe I should go make dinner. then..."


My subjective view is I can play away most turns under one or two minutes, this thing makes games with slower people scary. You either make it click heavy, or irrelevant through automation. Both kill most of your idea straight up.


I realized that we have different views on the game. I play at the minimum speed of the game and even in the later stages of the game quite a few actions for the player, even if I'm waging a war on three fronts. I'm a fan of games "Polaris Sector" and "Dominions 4" and i'm not afraid of a lot of micromanagement.

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