Spicing up the victory conditions

MentatRender

Hyperium Survivor

8 years ago

Jul 13, 2017, 2:06:58 AM

Economic, wonder and science victory need more depth and mechanics. I dont think the victory condition should just be a number, though it should be tangible and it should be something which the other factions can impede or influence.

I appreciate that the science victory is the turtle victory but at the moment it is just race to final tier and get wealth of the endless and science of the endless (*probably called knowledge of the endless) then wait and win. people can stop you from this only by conquest and to a limited extent by blockades (both military). How does someone also going to a science victory impede you...? I would like to see a mini-quest or event to spread the way the final techs are gained which would be possible for others to compete in but extremely difficult unless they were competative in science.
Wonder is a staple of 4x and RTS but always seems the most dull. Wonders in AoEII were pretty but here in ES2 you cant even see them and the games play to getting them is stale. I would love to see the wonders and have some restrictions and benifits on them to spice up getting them and competing against them. Wonders could be the ability to build a planet! or a dyson sphere!! or a mass relay to another galaxy!! (probably named something less IP sensitive) which would be visible in the system and the universe map. A new planet would provide all the benefits a designed planety should to who ever owns it and a dyson sphere should provide infinite power!!! whatever that entails (probably a metric shit-tonne of FIDSI, mostly Industry). These would 1, be cool 2, be worth competing for and stealing and 3, DYSON SPHERES.
Economic Victory at the moment stays off in most peoples games because it simple ends the game at midgame. One solution would be the increase the number at which the victory condition kicks in... but that seems dull. In a similar theme to the trade companies idea i think economic victory should be when you can exert economic pressure on the whole galaxy. either through buyout (see above) or by establishing a galatic bank! And similar to the other victory conditions i think it should be in stages (constellation banks first) and put in place in such a way that anopther economically inclind player or faction could compete. In this case i think establishing constellation banks or stock exchanges should be dooable with a medium to high amount of economic power but controlling it and influencing others would require the might of capitalism! or something.

Updated 7 months ago.

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MetalCommander

Roving Amateur

Knowing my habits when paticipating in forums I'll probably be gone before the end of the year so be quick before it's gone!

MetalCommander

Roving Amateur

14 300g2g pts

8 years ago

Jul 19, 2017, 7:29:27 AM

Reading your economic victory proposal I'm wondering. Wouldn't all this stuff require setting up a dept system to work properly?

MentatRender

Hyperium Survivor

- If only the universe was procedurally generated,..... oh wait, If only we knew the rules. -

MentatRender

Hyperium Survivor

8 years ago

Jul 19, 2017, 8:48:29 AM

Haha, yes to set up an actual bank. I meant just have it as a proxy or a quest ending. Im not suggesting sweeping changes to the system though that would be cool more just the victory condition.

Though there is already quite a functional resources exchange in the game so speculation would be neat.

A galactic bank would require huge investment and security and all the credit would have to remain solvent (not dead) so it would add some political flavour to the economic victory but if you want to float the whole thing you could

Vendata

Newcomer

Vendata

Newcomer

11 800g2g pts

8 years ago

Jul 23, 2017, 5:39:41 PM

i think espionage or a more sophisticated trade companies (as you mentioned) would be the best way of adding more depth to science or economic victories, giving players the ability to implede other's progress without resorting to military action.

I'm not sure what you had in mind for the mini-quests to gain the final technologies for a science victory, but I like the idea of the non-military victories at least having stages. For a wonder victory, the final stage could be defending the systems where the wonders are located for X turns. Other players receive a quest to take over these systems.

Similarly, the final stage of an economic victory could involve creating a trade route of a certain length and defending it for a certain number of turns. Blockading the route pauses the timer, but the only way to stop it is taking over the system at the start or end of the trade route.

MentatRender

Hyperium Survivor

- If only the universe was procedurally generated,..... oh wait, If only we knew the rules. -

MentatRender

Hyperium Survivor

7 years ago

Jul 24, 2017, 7:12:49 AM

Yes! Espionage as well!

From your ideas (dutifully upvoted btw) it seems we pretty much agree that the victory conditions feel a little under done and that they should feel more rewarding and more incremental (rather than bam, suddenly science victory) as well as being competitive in that other players could impede the progress at any stage.

at the time of writing i didnt really have any more idea for the science victory than the above but now i think it should be a curiosity quest which plays on the strength of a high science faction and the science hero the Seeker. Each 'Of The Endless' tech could reveal high level curiosities in remote locations (out of the galaxy by a bit) which you would need to explore to gain the full or additional benifit of the tech. I would also like to see the 'Of The Endless' techs moved to their own research teir as as it currently stands it is hard to enjoy the late game technologies like tier 3 luxuries, highlevel weapons, planet crackers and influence take overs without suddenly Science Victory!!

In a similar theme to espionage i like the idea of economic pressure and the eventual buy out of trade companies as a way for non-military players to compete with an economic victory

Vendata

Newcomer

Vendata

Newcomer

11 800g2g pts

7 years ago

Jul 24, 2017, 10:16:35 PM

MentatRender wrote:
at the time of writing i didnt really have any more idea for the science victory than the above but now i think it should be a curiosity quest which plays on the strength of a high science faction and the science hero the Seeker. Each 'Of The Endless' tech could reveal high level curiosities in remote locations (out of the galaxy by a bit) which you would need to explore to gain the full or additional benifit of the tech.

This could be interesting if the location for each "of the Endless" tech curiosity is in the same location for all players. That way, the first player to research that particular technology could stick a fleet on that system to impede the progress of other Science-focused players.

I would also like to see the 'Of The Endless' techs moved to their own research teir as as it currently stands it is hard to enjoy the late game technologies like tier 3 luxuries, highlevel weapons, planet crackers and influence take overs without suddenly Science Victory!!

I like this idea. Right now, for example, if you wanted to bulid a carrier with an upgraded hull and the strongest weapons available, you pretty much have to deliberately avoid getting a science victory. It might be worth posting this separately as its own idea.

In a similar theme to espionage i like the idea of economic pressure and the eventual buy out of trade companies as a way for non-military players to compete with an economic victory

Agreed. If there are non-military victories, there should be non-military methods of competition.

Updated 7 years ago.

MentatRender

Hyperium Survivor

- If only the universe was procedurally generated,..... oh wait, If only we knew the rules. -

MentatRender

Hyperium Survivor

7 years ago

Jul 26, 2017, 1:02:10 AM

There is already an idea for moving the endless techs to a new tier so we should all go vote there and not double up on competing ideas.

Vendata

Newcomer

Vendata

Newcomer

11 800g2g pts

7 years ago

Jul 26, 2017, 1:11:21 AM

MentatRender wrote:
There is already an idea for moving the endless techs to a new tier so we should all go vote there and not double up on competing ideas.

Didn't see that before. Thanks for the link!

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