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reduction of micromanagement

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7 years ago
Nov 21, 2017, 1:16:34 PM

Hello ladies and gentlemen,


Ive concluded that its time to share my anger about the overall developement of ES2 with you. Me, as a proven EL veteran, who enjoyed the game, especially the multiplayer, for hundreds of hours, troubles that the mulitplayer in ES2 is virtually unplayable. And im not talking about any technical difficulties (devs did a good job there this time) but its rather about many somewhat odd decisions of gameplay design and the overall lack of atmosphere.


Issues I see:

1.) Compared to EL one has to colonize way more "regions". This leads to dragging turns and to slow and boring gameplay. This was fine in EL since usually it was only about (the last) 10-20 turns if the game was played on fast speed, because it was stupid to expand too much early. So one had 3-4 cities on average and expanded later on which was fine imo. But now it is of grand importance to have as much systems as humanly possible, in a usual game I feel forced to colonize 8-10 systems and that usually happens rather early in the game. Concerning the multiplayer this means 10-15 min long turns if one wants to micromanage. At least for me, this is a dealbreaker and makes the multiplayer mode extremely unattractive and even singleplayer games feel kinda bad.

2.) The amount of micromanagement has become stupidly high! If you wanna optimize all your systems population wise for example, you will take ages. To me it feels like for every systems you have to manage three cities compared to EL, I mean like wtf. In EL I really enjoyed optimizing build orders, playing around with empire plans etc. but now that fun is completely gone. It certainly has to do with the fact that I neither have good visual feedback of my developement nor that I reach a point of victory in MP games because all people left the 12 hour long session which is understandable ofc.

3.) The world feels dead. No visual feedback, no nothing. Cant interact with the fights, cant see any progression in your systems. The lore is great, I loved the freaking different factions, and stories and such and I can still see that there is the same love to detail, but I dont feel it anymore. I dont feel like im the infamous emperor leading my people to victory, I dont feel like im in the world anymore. Although the music is still great, the just looks blend. No visual highlights like Guardians, Wonders, hell even improved city district could look awesome. But here we have named colored dots with some blueprint ships flying around it, I mean you have the awesome 3D models why not use them?! 


Listen, I was in love with EL and I still kinda am. I played it everyday with tons of different people online, we had a network, an active multiplayer community. Ive hosted tons of games, added everyone to my friend list, welcomed noobs and introduced them to the multiplayer community. But now, now that whole hype is gone. I had hopes for ES2, but theyre gone now and honestly I wouldnt even have paid the 30 bucks for this game if I knew it would be like this.

Updated 15 days ago.
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7 years ago
Nov 21, 2017, 6:44:38 PM

Firstly, this is Endless Space, not Endless Legend. I have both, and I enjoy both. 


It is a bit odd to expect a Space 4X game to reward going high rather than tall. I agree that this should be somewhat overhauled - your power should not depend on your size. But seeing how a galaxy contains millions of stars, ending up with 10 systems by the end does not seem too bad. 


You do realize you can automate your system production, right? So you don't need no micromanagement except for your battles. Yet the micromanagement is there if you wish. My mutliplayer experience is rather thin, but from what I gather micromanagement will only be seriously undertaken by those most serious of players. If your opponent is taking his time, he is most likely  doing so because he wants to win. You might as well use the time yourself. The only time you spent waiting is the time you did not take to improve your gameplay, allowing someone else to do more detail. 


I concur with you on the world being a tad bit bland, but in my most recent game I came over this by taking an extra interest in the cooperative quest. This is one area they might improve upon. Adding more importance to this will make the international arena a lot more interactive. The recent diplomacy improvement takes this further. If it's bland, what do you suggest? A space monster like that water one in EL? 


But I totally agree that they should focus more on enhancing the detail of the planets. Seeing important structures on your planets, including major cities, monuments, etc., with each faction having radically different looking structures as in EL, would be great. That would add some needed distinction between factions. 


Keep in mind that ES2 is still new and is still getting major updates. You talked about EL's guardians, hinted at that water monster (did you?), talked of some balance issues. Most of these issues in EL were addressed with massive updates and expansions. ES2 is yet to receive any expansions while still getting important updates. Give it a year or two. Think of the scope of some of EL's expansions, then consider how game changing ES2's expansions will be. 



Updated 7 years ago.
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7 years ago
Nov 22, 2017, 4:33:19 PM

If im playing Multiplayer, I want to win, too. And I see myself as so called  "most serious" player, you have to optimize everything in MP to even remotely stand a chance. Automation is not an option if you try to play somewhat competetive.


Anyway, my point is, that optimizing and such is a hell lot of fun but only to a certain point. In EL I felt excitement while crafting my unit compositions and was looking forward to the game deciding battle at the opponents capital but it feels like this moment never arrives in ES2. It lacks the different unit types from minor factions, too.


I disagree heavily. Cooperative quests can be fun up to a certain point but they are very hard to balance. You do not want an RNG dependant Multiplayer game, just feels bad. If you win it should be due to you being better than your opponent. Of course there is always a certain RNG element to 4x games cause your spawn decides somewhat how well youre doing. But good players know how to adapt to certain situations. e.g. if you had a bad spawn in EL you still had different options to go for. Rushing a wonder is off the table since youre not able to get it before everyone else. Economy booming? same thing. youd start from behind. This leaves military options. You could go for an era 1 rush, era 3 rush or even just snack one of his new expanded cities. As you can see there was a certain strategic depth to EL that ES2 completely lacks at least in my opinion. And with not RNG dependant im not talking about core gameplay elements like world generation but rather a quest in turn 5 that gifts you 5000 dust.


Concerning the visuals youre completely right. I wanna have different art styles and buildings for each faction, I should be able to tell which faction im facing without having to check the scoreboard or diplo screen for colors and names.


To be honest Endless Space 2 is no where near being "new". Six months have passed and its still shitty. If the game sucks, dont publish it yet. Im not sure if its the decision of SEGA or the devs themselves. These updates had to be day one included. All im saying is that there are huge fans out there like me that do not enjoy this game. Ive added roughly 50 people who were active players in EL. At least 10 were online everyday. Yesterday I hopped into ES2 and there wasnt even a MP game commencing, I mean like wtf? this is 6 months after the release, we played EL for over 2 years. Of these 50 people 20 bought ES2 (some had issues with the setting, understandable. me for myself I love science fiction) and theres only ONE among them who actively enjoys the game and gave a positive steam review. 

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7 years ago
Nov 23, 2017, 4:47:50 PM

This belongs to the forums, not to "Ideas" tab.


Like I can't even note a single actual suggestion on OP, all I see is what did you like in EL and what do you not like in ES2.


"I had hopes for ES2, but theyre gone now and honestly I wouldnt even have paid the 30 bucks for this game if I knew it would be like this." 

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7 years ago
Nov 23, 2017, 7:18:26 PM
DerDreher wrote:

If im playing Multiplayer, I want to win, too. And I see myself as so called  "most serious" player, you have to optimize everything in MP to even remotely stand a chance. Automation is not an option if you try to play somewhat competetive.


Anyway, my point is, that optimizing and such is a hell lot of fun but only to a certain point. In EL I felt excitement while crafting my unit compositions and was looking forward to the game deciding battle at the opponents capital but it feels like this moment never arrives in ES2. It lacks the different unit types from minor factions, too.


I disagree heavily. Cooperative quests can be fun up to a certain point but they are very hard to balance. You do not want an RNG dependant Multiplayer game, just feels bad. If you win it should be due to you being better than your opponent. Of course there is always a certain RNG element to 4x games cause your spawn decides somewhat how well youre doing. But good players know how to adapt to certain situations. e.g. if you had a bad spawn in EL you still had different options to go for. Rushing a wonder is off the table since youre not able to get it before everyone else. Economy booming? same thing. youd start from behind. This leaves military options. You could go for an era 1 rush, era 3 rush or even just snack one of his new expanded cities. As you can see there was a certain strategic depth to EL that ES2 completely lacks at least in my opinion. And with not RNG dependant im not talking about core gameplay elements like world generation but rather a quest in turn 5 that gifts you 5000 dust.


Concerning the visuals youre completely right. I wanna have different art styles and buildings for each faction, I should be able to tell which faction im facing without having to check the scoreboard or diplo screen for colors and names.


To be honest Endless Space 2 is no where near being "new". Six months have passed and its still shitty. If the game sucks, dont publish it yet. Im not sure if its the decision of SEGA or the devs themselves. These updates had to be day one included. All im saying is that there are huge fans out there like me that do not enjoy this game. Ive added roughly 50 people who were active players in EL. At least 10 were online everyday. Yesterday I hopped into ES2 and there wasnt even a MP game commencing, I mean like wtf? this is 6 months after the release, we played EL for over 2 years. Of these 50 people 20 bought ES2 (some had issues with the setting, understandable. me for myself I love science fiction) and theres only ONE among them who actively enjoys the game and gave a positive steam review. 

To tie in with what Inwaves said, what are you suggesting? You say less micromanagement. Okay, how? You can already qeue production. What else can be done to lesten this?

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7 years ago
Nov 24, 2017, 6:25:58 PM

I agree with the number 3. I make an IDEA to respect but is refused.

For the rest, I think your idea is a bit wrong. It is true that the game has too much micromanagement in some aspects, such as the TEDIOUS skill tree of the heroes. But it lacks micromanagement in other fields, such as combat, which is bland and repetitive. The rest of mechanics, I think that contribute to give complexity to the game. They convince me even if they are not perfect.

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