Interstellar Migration Sistem

Ravellon

Refreezerator

8 years ago

May 23, 2017, 2:51:12 PM

So the current system lacks a lot of features.

I will list the main problems I see and my suggestions for solving them in the most convenient (in my opinion) order for resolving them.

Problem: While transport is on its way the empty slot needed for its launch can be filled by another migrating pop or by natural pop growth. If this happens the transport will just hang in orbit until a slot becomes available or it is destroyed.
Suggestion: When migration is in progress the planet of the destination should reserve a population slot for incoming pop. That is, after population departure is confirmed the slot locks down and cannot be used for anything until the incoming civilian ship arrives or is destroyed. The lock-down mechanism already exists (Unfallen Guardians) so it should be an easy fix. Would be really nice as a quickfix, because it's the thing that turns empire wide pop management from just very inconvenient into not worth bothering with.
Problem: There is no easy way to see at a glance where the populations requiring relocation are actually located. At the moment the player has to click at each system individually in the Empire Summary to look at its demographics.
Suggestion: A new panel in the same window (between Systems and Victory looks like a nice location) called Population or Demographics. List systems in a table in similar way to Systems panel with different fields. The fields I think are most needed are:
- Name - Same as Systems
- Composition - Planets. With little planet icons with planet attribute icons under them. Tooltip should tell what planet type it is.
- Population - Same as Systems. Showing max pop capacity of the system would be nice tho. For Systems panel as well.
- Population Distribution - the big and important part. Make this field divide itself in as many parts as there are colonized planets in a system. In each of those parts display the population slots of the system by planet. In those slots display population of the planets by type. Make the field sortable by population type.
Problem: Migrating population is a manual task.
Suggestion: Create an automation in the aforementioned Demographics panel as follows:
- One click at a population icon takes away a number of them (same as system view, only not drag and drop).
- Another click drops them on a planet. If it's a planet in the same system let the normal swapping around take place (duplicate this functionality of Systems panel or move it from there, either way works). If it's a different System then use the migration algorithm as follows:
  1. If there is no spaceport (or another way of pop transportation) then return pops where they were taken from.
  2. If there is a spaceport check the number of free slots.
  3. If there are free slots reserve as many of them as needed and available as targets for migration (refer to Problem 1). Leave the pops that did not fit in hand.
  4. When there is a migration queue and free spaceport slots:
    1. Look at the first in queue's destination.
    2. If there are no free slots at destination cancel migration of all pops with the same destination and notify the player (the system might've been lost after all)
    3. If there are free slots fill the space port to it's fullest by pops moving to that system and send it off
    4. Return to 1
- Leave the migrating pops as phantom icons on destination with tooltips telling where they are coming from and icons with little micro-icons in a corner with tooltips telling where they are going.
- One click at those two will cancel migration
- Populations on the way should be full colored on destination with a micro icons in a corner (probably in a different one than the "due to migrate" one).
Problem: There is no way to dispose off or replace unwanted pops (not counting Cravers)
Suggestion: On topped off systems make an option available to mark a pop type as Unwanted and Desired. One pop of each type at a time. Make it so Desired pop will replace Unwanted pop at 1/5 pop growth speed or something with a small temporary penalty to approval.
Addendum1: Problem: Civilian ships, being uncontrollable, die frequently to random pirates that siege systems along their way and player can't do anything about it if he can't kill them off fast enough.
Suggestion: Make civilian ships free travelling with a speed matched to the time it would take them to travel normally. This way they will only die if the system of destination is in siege. I understand it's a bit of a hack but random pirates are annoying as is, not need to add to that with something players can't do anything about.

I think that's it so far. Hope this is helpful.

Updated 6 days ago.

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Belho

Prime Founder

Belho

Prime Founder

39 500g2g pts

8 years ago

May 23, 2017, 3:37:37 PM

Hey,

Thanks for posting this idea. Migration needs a lot of love from the dev.

Currently playing a very wide Unfallen empire, moving population around is such a chore I abandoned the idea to min/max planet synergies and politics/factions.

I would like to propose a complementary system, based on a new interactive Scan Mode.

I think that indeed a new Scan Mode showing Empire Demographics directly on the galaxy map could really improve population management.

This Scan Mode could show the population composition above each system and could allow the player to move population around from systems to systems directly on the galaxy map (this feature is already present in the colony management screen for interplanetary migration).

Several informations could be displayed like the presence of a spaceport, the planet synergies, a classy art for each species for immersion, etc...

This Scan Mode could be accessed at any time and any "altitude", via a new tab in the classic scan view for example.

Updated 8 years ago.

Ravellon

Refreezerator

Ravellon

Refreezerator

8 years ago

May 23, 2017, 4:20:41 PM

That would be a really nice feature but it requires a rework of the Scan system. Until its done and tested I don't think its a good idea trying to add new features to it.

But it definitely should be kept in mind for future reference. It sounds as a very convenient way of handling empire wide migration.

Elphealer

Timer

Create your worlds, create your games. And Share it !

Elphealer

Timer

36 400g2g pts

8 years ago

May 23, 2017, 5:53:17 PM

1 - Nice Idea, but pretty risky, you need to manage every case where you lost this civilian ship.

2 - Why Not

3 -Why no drag and drop ?

You could unavailable system wich have a full spaceport for the drag.

You could unavailable system which are full when you select the population from and you choose the system to drop.

4 - I'm ok with the Undesired feature, but just to priority wich population you will lose when you have to lose a population.

5 - Yeah it's a bit frustrating, but I think it's important for players to protect their system from pirate (to improve the trade, the ressource extraction and so the civilian ship)

Ravellon

Refreezerator

Ravellon

Refreezerator

8 years ago

May 23, 2017, 6:44:47 PM

Elphealer wrote:
1 - Nice Idea, but pretty risky, you need to manage every case where you lost this civilian ship.

"the slot locks down and cannot be used for anything until the incoming civilian ship arrives or is destroyed" - basically, that will change only one thing: you won't need to worry that this free slot necessary for the immigrant will be filled by natural growth.

3 -Why no drag and drop ?
You could unavailable system wich have a full spaceport for the drag.
You could unavailable system which are full when you select the population from and you choose the system to drop.

In case you need to scroll, so that you won't accidentally drop them into wrong system. With planets it's not an issue because they are all on one screen. But you can have a LOT of systems if you focus on expansion.

4 - I'm ok with the Undesired feature, but just to priority wich population you will lose when you have to lose a population.

And it will just add more micro-management and tedium because you'll have to rotate what species you want replaced. That's not fun. As I specifically stated, this option should only be available on topped off systems.

5 - Yeah it's a bit frustrating, but I think it's important for players to protect their system from pirate (to improve the trade, the ressource extraction and so the civilian ship)

The problem here is that player has no control over civilian ships. So there are situation where you need the ship to wait just a single turn to survive but you can't make it do that and it dies. Despite the fact you are just a single turn from saving it. Again, it's not fun. Either the player need control over them or they should be better protected. This is probably not the best way to deal with it tho, yes.

AliC

Newcomer

AliC

Newcomer

11 400g2g pts

8 years ago

Jun 3, 2017, 1:12:10 PM

Came here looking to post my idea about needing a better way to manage and migrate population and this pretty much covers it.

Being able to view two planet screens with the population migration queues next to each other as well as the available information per planet as we have now would seem like it would make this task a lot easier whilst still having the player determine 100% the strategy.

Mechanics to semi-automate could be added (set planets to have weightings for the type of pop you want there), as well as automated, as game options ( I probably wouldn't want to play like this but others do - see quote below)

N.N.Thoughts wrote here:
What do you guys think about having an AI optimise our population migration after systems are upgraded? I'm talking about automatically moving population stacks that, for example, favour Temperate planets to such planets if there are free population slots available there. You should be able to toggle this on and off because for some systems you might want to take advantage of some buildings that provide bonuses to "original" population or "foreign" population.

I would want to tweak #4:

4. Problem: There is no way to dispose off or replace unwanted pops (not counting Cravers)
Suggestion: On topped off systems make an option available to mark a pop type as Unwanted and Desired. One pop of each type at a time. Make it so Desired pop will replace Unwanted pop at 1/5 pop growth speed or something with a small temporary penalty to approval.

I think there should be a way to do this but it should come at high penalty for factions that would be opposed to it ethically, and easier for factions that would be more aligned with it. Speed of population "purge" (yes I have Stellaris) and happiness could be the metrics that take a hit when a faction is more opposed. It should not be quick and easy. More a way to correct strategic mistakes made by the player in how they control their population growth from the outset.

I think Addendum1 as others suggest should be left as is - if you've ships - civilian or otherwise - traversing star lanes, they should be open to attack if an aggressor can get close enough. I'm unclear why the OP says the player can't do anything about it - we should protect our borders. That said there should be some pathfinding where the civ ship finds another way (within reason (within borders perhaps)) if there are hostiles present along their destination.

Ravellon

Refreezerator

Ravellon

Refreezerator

8 years ago

Jun 9, 2017, 9:23:34 PM

I think there should be a way to do this but it should come at high penalty for factions that would be opposed to it ethically, and easier for factions that would be more aligned with it. Speed of population "purge" (yes I have Stellaris) and happiness could be the metrics that take a hit when a faction is more opposed. It should not be quick and easy. More a way to correct strategic mistakes made by the player in how they control their population growth from the outset.

What I had in mind is more along the lines of encouraging procreation of Desired Pop and discouraging procreation of Unwanted Pop through careful social engeneering. Unethical but not obvious for an observer hence the penalty being small. After all, you don't need to be a dictator to be a psychopath.

I'm totally for totalitarian warmongers slaughtering pops that get in the way for a larger penalty.

I think Addendum1 as others suggest should be left as is - if you've ships - civilian or otherwise - traversing star lanes, they should be open to attack if an aggressor can get close enough. I'm unclear why the OP says the player can't do anything about it - we should protect our borders. That said there should be some pathfinding where the civ ship finds another way (within reason (within borders perhaps)) if there are hostiles present along their destination.

Problem here are randomly spawning pirates. You can't keep a fleet in every system along the way, sending escort with every fleet is not feasable as well. So if the pirates spawn along the way you may be unable to deal with them in time and you won't be able to delay the ship or re-route it or do anything but watch it die. That's frustrating as hell.

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