CREATING THE SPY FACTION, PART 5: ICON

I'd quite like to see the eye motif of option 3 combined with the wisp motif of option 2.

I'd like to change my vote to the third one.  Is that possible?

second one

I definitely like the second icon the best. 

TBH what I believe would be more appropriate for them as a spy faction that existed before the endless would be that they saw the endless as they first ventured into space and stayed hidden while observing them grow and conquer, maybe even experimented with them (as mentioned above, orchestrated wars and stuff like that), Maybe they can shapeshift and turn into endless to effect their politics. Maybe can be carried into gameplay as well, they start out hidden untill the player decides to appear or certain time passes. They can change ship affinities to make it as though Nation X attacked Nation Y when its actually them. Lmao would be so funny to play like that, starting wars and watch how it turns out.

cossin wrote:

this is the first sound reasoning and explanation as to why it should be Djinns, and to be frank: I can live with that. From the way the other guys kept writing it occured to me, that they really wanted a race looking like Djinns with wish-granting and everything included from flying capets to lamps that conceal them XD

personally, I‘d still want something even more alien if possible. Don‘t get me wrong, clouds hiding in objects for espionage is actually a pretty cool idea! I would like something that is totally different from everything else in the galaxy. Maybe they bring balance to the universe and orchestrated the Endless War in the background? 

You might be right, I might have assumed too much when I said nobody wants the full package genie race. I certainly hope it's not the case. I initially commented positively to the original djinn comments, but it was more musing on their potential abilities. Genies, with all they're often portrayed as capable of, have some pretty good espionage abilities, and might not be a bad inspiration to draw from. But nothing's set in stone and we're cursed to take shots in the dark, trying to make up names and symbols and body shapes based for a creature we know nothing about. I think we should have come up with some background and abilities for them first, but I guess doing it this way does spark silly conversations like this that the devs might find useful for developing those details.

And I agree. We voted on aliens, I'm expecting something pretty non-humanoid. Something that either the Endless couldn't properly deal with and sealed away, something that hid from the Endless and meddled in their affairs, or maybe something from another galaxy. I personally like the idea of them being conglomerates of dark matter from a nebula system so twisted and alien that normal laws of physics get chewed up and spat back out, and ships that dare to enter come out with insane crews, decades later, or never at all. Or, nothing happens. Sometimes the trip is smooth and uneventful. Which is why people keep trying to go through it.

Zurvaan wrote:

cossin wrote:

firas724 wrote:

We also would like to emphasize that these designs are not final, but are meant to inform the direction that we will take for the development of the faction.

Dude the Design you saw could not be the one we see in-game. They could add djinns in a way that fits the game and universe so well that you might even take back what you said, it is all in the way they are presented. When I see Vodyani I never think of ghosts/clouds/djinns nor with the riftborn, majority voted for the wraiths and thus there will be wraiths in the game.  

Dude! I am still fully aware! Yet, the voting was there to make sure it is an ALIEN weird kind of being. Not a humanoid-ish creature. Thus, we voted for for something that goes into the direction of a non-humanoid alien, which is a wraith (meaning probably incorporeal/gaseous), spy race, that is older or at least not been tempered with by the endless. Call them whatever you want, Djinns simply do not fit, in my expectations to what has been voted for.  As something that has not being tempered by the Endless, they must be outstanding; either in their military prowress to defend themselves OR in their ability to conceal themselves. Plus, there are already so many humanoid major species, I personally don‘t want a race that just lacks feet...

I feel like all this criticism over the concept of djinns is a little misplaced. Genies, and I use this word henceforth referring to all related and offshoot names such as djinn, are a pretty broad concept, with different aspects in every lore and universe and story they appear in. Now keep in mind, the devs initially wanted to name the species based on a name given by the other races of the galaxy, as perhaps they're so alien that they don't have a name for themselves. Imagine these creatures spotted across the galaxy emerging from small, hollow objects on peoples desks or bookshelves, as amorphous clouds that quickly coalesce into whatever shape they end up having. The galaxy might want to name this phenomenon, and call it, with good reason, a djinn.

Now obviously it's not a genie, and it's not emerging from the Sophon comms officer's spare datapad to grant it 3 wishes. It was simply using the properties of it's incorporeal, shadowy form to hide in an object and spy on the comms officer, because this race is a faction focused on espionage. From this perspective, djinn is a pretty reasonable name for these guys. It's not "We are the Djinn." but "We have no need for names, but they call us The Djinn."

I think the devs and most everyone else would agree that putting legit genies, with gaudy turbans, little beards and folded arms, as a major faction into this game would be a terrible move all around. They are going to be alien in design, that much has already been decided, and likely pretty un-genie-like. But if genies and our community created ghost babies happen to have a few abilities and traits or even a name in common, Endless Space 2 won't suddenly become Disney-Amplitude's Aladdin in Space.

this is the first sound reasoning and explanation as to why it should be Djinns, and to be frank: I can live with that. From the way the other guys kept writing it occured to me, that they really wanted a race looking like Djinns with wish-granting and everything included from flying capets to lamps that conceal them XD

personally, I‘d still want something even more alien if possible. Don‘t get me wrong, clouds hiding in objects for espionage is actually a pretty cool idea! I would like something that is totally different from everything else in the galaxy. Maybe they bring balance to the universe and orchestrated the Endless War in the background? 

Who would've thought that my quip about the djinn would promote this much discussion :)

BTW why couldnt we choose the faction sigil from the ones in the faction age vote? (the triangle looking thing) They looked amazing

I am pretty sure those were the symbol for the drakken from endless legend but in several styles (ancient,endless,and tech version)

They could be made out of space dust or essense of the cosmos (whatever that is), a wraith is definity capable of being older than the endless. I mean even Djinn (Not Genies from Aladdin stories if thats what your thinking of) in our real world are said to be ancient and live for millenia, and are beings made from fire.. So in my opinion, they fit very well with being ancient.

BTW why couldnt we choose the faction sigil from the ones in the faction age vote? (the triangle looking thing) They looked amazing

I pick option three, so that I may shout "Bullseye!" as I shoot at clouds.

firas724 wrote:

We also would like to emphasize that these designs are not final, but are meant to inform the direction that we will take for the development of the faction.

Dude the Design you saw could not be the one we see in-game. They could add djinns in a way that fits the game and universe so well that you might even take back what you said, it is all in the way they are presented. When I see Vodyani I never think of ghosts/clouds/djinns nor with the riftborn, majority voted for the wraiths and thus there will be wraiths in the game.  

Dude! I am still fully aware! Yet, the voting was there to make sure it is an ALIEN weird kind of being. Not a humanoid-ish creature. Thus, we voted for for something that goes into the direction of a non-humanoid alien, which is a wraith (meaning probably incorporeal/gaseous), spy race, that is older or at least not been tempered with by the endless. Call them whatever you want, Djinns simply do not fit, in my expectations to what has been voted for.  As something that has not being tempered by the Endless, they must be outstanding; either in their military prowress to defend themselves OR in their ability to conceal themselves. Plus, there are already so many humanoid major species, I personally don‘t want a race that just lacks feet...

3rd option. Spying race and eye icon, seems to be the best fit

cossin wrote:

NutMut wrote:

cossin wrote:

Please... no Space Djinns.... just plain no :-/

That sounds so....blargh... besides being pretty much Voydani in a different form (remember? They are dust/data clouds in a suit. Vampiric clouds, but clouds nontheless)

Make it something unique. Maybe it could be gaseous being, that can manipulate some weird organic lifeform and encase themselves as brains of fully organic alien tissue (and because they can arrange that stuff and their own density, they went unnoticed by the endless and are able to spy easily?)

We already know the wraiths will be clouds. Parasite lost the vote twice. Besides, when I look at Vodyani I don't think Djinn or even cloud like life forms. Djinn can also be taken in a lot of creative directions as well. Google images for Djinn shows a huge variety of stuff. By Djinn we mean like an Indian mythology themed Wraith (cloud) lifeform.

yeah, I know. I have been actively voting. but that half man/woman, have cloud idea? Nah.... then if you don‘t think of the Vodyanni like that, that‘s fine by me. Doesn‘t change the fact, that species itself looked different from what they look now, because they are data/dust consciousnesses transfered into suits that contain them. break the suit, you should get a beautiful cloud / djinn. more than that, we get an alien life-form. Not a humanoid (well, probably a matter of perspective wheter a half cloud, half humanoid counts as alien).

Djinn is so wrong on so many levels and at least for me, a Djinn is a magical being, not a alien/scyfi/tech/spy being roaming through space.

How does a Djinn like creature fit into the spy topic? they have always been flashy, sometimes even enormous beings. How would the Endless not have found/tempered with them? Maybe we get an Endless 2 version of the necrons/undeads. A faction that summons the essence of enemies (ghosts/clouds) that fight for it?

i don‘t know. I keep saying, that I thing this will be hard, like very hard to design to not touch the idea/lore of other species (Vodyani=space vampire clouds encased in suits, Riftborn=beings from another ghostly dimension, that came to our 3D dimension, Cravers=the hivemind idea -> probably rules out the chances of an intelligent micro-organism [ghostly appearance but not really a ghost]  hivemindy kind of species, I could go on)

But for me, personally -so please don‘t mind me disagreeing-, Djinns are sooooooo far away from what I want in a space game, it hurts me

Maybe instead of considering them as djinns you could consider them as Shadows? i think that way will sound awesomer and more sci-fi to you :)

NutMut wrote:

cossin wrote:

Please... no Space Djinns.... just plain no :-/

That sounds so....blargh... besides being pretty much Voydani in a different form (remember? They are dust/data clouds in a suit. Vampiric clouds, but clouds nontheless)

Make it something unique. Maybe it could be gaseous being, that can manipulate some weird organic lifeform and encase themselves as brains of fully organic alien tissue (and because they can arrange that stuff and their own density, they went unnoticed by the endless and are able to spy easily?)

We already know the wraiths will be clouds. Parasite lost the vote twice. Besides, when I look at Vodyani I don't think Djinn or even cloud like life forms. Djinn can also be taken in a lot of creative directions as well. Google images for Djinn shows a huge variety of stuff. By Djinn we mean like an Indian mythology themed Wraith (cloud) lifeform.

yeah, I know. I have been actively voting. but that half man/woman, have cloud idea? Nah.... then if you don‘t think of the Vodyanni like that, that‘s fine by me. Doesn‘t change the fact, that species itself looked different from what they look now, because they are data/dust consciousnesses transfered into suits that contain them. break the suit, you should get a beautiful cloud / djinn. more than that, we get an alien life-form. Not a humanoid (well, probably a matter of perspective wheter a half cloud, half humanoid counts as alien).

Djinn is so wrong on so many levels and at least for me, a Djinn is a magical being, not a alien/scyfi/tech/spy being roaming through space.

How does a Djinn like creature fit into the spy topic? they have always been flashy, sometimes even enormous beings. How would the Endless not have found/tempered with them? Maybe we get an Endless 2 version of the necrons/undeads. A faction that summons the essence of enemies (ghosts/clouds) that fight for it?

i don‘t know. I keep saying, that I thing this will be hard, like very hard to design to not touch the idea/lore of other species (Vodyani=space vampire clouds encased in suits, Riftborn=beings from another ghostly dimension, that came to our 3D dimension, Cravers=the hivemind idea -> probably rules out the chances of an intelligent micro-organism [ghostly appearance but not really a ghost]  hivemindy kind of species, I could go on)

But for me, personally -so please don‘t mind me disagreeing-, Djinns are sooooooo far away from what I want in a space game, it hurts me