I'd like to see more ship types, as well as a x5 or x10 selection for ship production. Also, if the engine could handle it I'd like to see fleet points revamped for double or more the ship-count available in late-game battles.



That being said, I absolutely love this game.

divideoverflow wrote:
I have to agree on the combat items a lot of people are saying. Right now, it is pretty rinse-and-repeat, which can be a bit bland. I'm glad to hear more camera options are being worked on. A free camera would be a welcome addition!

Definitely

divideoverflow wrote:
With that said, after playing for a little while, I don't necessarily mind the combat system, but I fear it lacks the depth to remain interesting.

Many things have to be improved on this side.

divideoverflow wrote:
Also, if I have multiple fleets in a system, I would expect that I could have them all join battle against a foe, not have to do it one at a time. You should be able to select which fleets in the system can join the battle... and if you chose more than one fleet on an attack move, it would use the attack move for all fleets selected.

This brings interesting questions indeed. I doubt the battle interface will allow multiple fleets combat (not even in multiplayer) but maybe the developers could surprise me (I would love that). But definitely, more options should be thought there, and the option you mentioned just here above (and quoted below) could be one of the first steps. I read somewhere else ideas about "patrol", "sentry mode" or that kind of things. I would definitely recommend to the devs to think of it, since it would be nice to define the order in which the fleets in one system could get hit. I.e. if you have a main fleet and a secondary fleet (like colony ships, troop transports or whatever) you could set your main fleet as blockade, escort, sentry, intercept or whatever orders that would make it intercept enemy fleets before they attack the secondary fleet of yours that would logically follow. Something should definitely be designed there, like fleet "stances" or anything that would give the player some control over the multiple fleets he stacks in one system.



Additionally, if you had such a priority system to attack stacked fleet, a combat card could be "bypass" or "vanish" and allow you to leave the current combat with the main fleet intercepting you and attack the next. Of course this would be annoying with the loading process of the current interface but hey, we're just brainstorming here I guess.

divideoverflow wrote:
One idea for the pirates/enemy/multiplayer component of ships escaping through your system before you can attack: You should be able to assign a fleet to "blockade" a system. If an enemy shows up, they must fight that fleet before being able to pass through. That would solve a lot of the simultaneous turn based issues with them escaping past. That way too, if a blockade is not set up, they can sneak through the system.

Very good idea in my opinion. Actually I would also like to be able to retreat from a fight (at least have a chance to do so, by choosing a card that say 75% chance to retreat on this phase for ships of this size, 50% for ships of this size or whatever thing... but definitely, the option/card must be there).

divideoverflow wrote:
I really like the game, and I think it has the potential to go into my top 10 with some combat system tweaks! I love everything else about it.

As first impression I would have said so. For an Alpha it already packs a lot of punch, but many many things have to be reworked and/or improved in my opinion. The combat system being one of the main issue since it fails a bit to involve the player in it (yeah, the 20 first times are fun, but once you get used to it...). Additionally, the combat system based on rock-paper-scissor is a bit too basic, with cards not really giving a huge twist to the system.



If I appreciate the simplicity of the concept, I fear it will show its limits very early on. While games like MoO2 packed tons of different weapons (3 types, many levels) we often ended up using the same ones all the time. Here, there are 3 types only and upgrades (ok they change color a bit at some point... but hey).



But just like the MoO2 game had some things like that, I've noticed that one of the part of armors has a +2% bonus on the total armor. That was that kind of thing that made Master of Orion so good (out of many other things), the fact that ok, weapons were doing more or less damage (not talking about the mount/size types which was good idea too), but some of them had very very special abilities that made them interesting even when you had a much higher tier technology. Please, keep the good ideas and try to use them more. I don't know, EMP effects that may freeze an enemy ship for a second on some weapons... Anything, but for now it's a bit too linear and I my opinion it's still lacking the epicness dimension of discovering the "anti-matter gun !!! woohooo!", the "phaser-gatling !!! amagad amagad I want!!!", there I got the feeling ok, machine gun Mk1, machine gun Mk2, machine gun Mk3 (so far I see no difference in the battle, but hey, numbers tell me it's better), machine gun Mk4 "oh, the color is different ? is it ?"... Well, not much excitement there. Rock-scissor-paper can be really efficient, but it needs some twists, especially considering that probably 90% of the current ES players have a reference like MoO2, and if they don't mind something different, something more simple, it still need to be rich of possibilities of epic proportions.

Remscar wrote:
That's something that also bugs me, im hoping for free camera move or the ability to switch between different shots instead of the guided camera.

Alright good so i wasn't alone in that sense haha. Yeah I love the space battles but viewing them is like a sporadic mash of quick shots. Smoother transitions or something like that. I was gonna use that Star wars game that used planets and space battles in a rts game, but even that was too sporadic.

Shawhaw wrote:
I enjoy the combat card formula but something that has been bugging me a bit is that the camera jumps around WAY too much and zooms in too close on your own ships. Like others before me suggesting some type of way of free controlling the camera or perhaps preset camera models such as "overview" or "Over the shoulder" of some ships. Just a few suggestions (Hopefully no one else said these already, but im pretty sure they didnt)

That's something that also bugs me, im hoping for free camera move or the ability to switch between different shots instead of the guided camera.

I enjoy the combat card formula but something that has been bugging me a bit is that the camera jumps around WAY too much and zooms in too close on your own ships. Like others before me suggesting some type of way of free controlling the camera or perhaps preset camera models such as "overview" or "Over the shoulder" of some ships. Just a few suggestions (Hopefully no one else said these already, but im pretty sure they didnt)

When I heard of an indirect battle system, I was thinking something more in line with Gratuitous Space Battles.



I'm really not the biggest fan of these RPS sort of battle systems, especially since it's giving me slight flashbacks of Infinite Space, another great space battle game that was marred by it's plodding battle system. Just wish there were most substance with it.

Just expand on the card system, maybe you would be able to add "Formation" cards for the approach phase?

Century wrote:
The battles have the potential to be fantastically cinematic, the ability to select a cinematic angle/ style to a epic battle would brilliant, also who wouldn't want to zoom in to see the fine detail of ships as they are blown to atoms.

i do think the melee phase of the battle could be spit up more as the fleets battle lines dissolve into each other but that's for another post

Personally i haven't ever made it to the melee phase, all the ships are blown up by then :P

It sounds epic though.

Remscar wrote:
I would like to see a more tactical control, not just battle cards.

Also the ability to freely move camera, lock-on to a specific ship, or spectate from a set cinematic angle.

The battles have the potential to be fantastically cinematic, the ability to select a cinematic angle/ style to a epic battle would brilliant, also who wouldn't want to zoom in to see the fine detail of ships as they are blown to atoms.

i do think the melee phase of the battle could be spit up more as the fleets battle lines dissolve into each other but that's for another post

Like I'd really like better camera, but another thing that would be really good is animated turrets like in SOTS instead of lasers shooting out of walls. Over all, the combat is different from most games because of the kind of trading card approach. This is a real contrast to most 4x games, but I would also like formations, and maybe a little player controlled movement, and full broadside things, kind of getting a certain bonus like defense, or tactics. Wedge could be offense bonus, wall defense. I don't know if it's being incorporated or or not, but fighters and bombers, or boarding ships, or like super small ships, being smaller then corvette but bigger then the fighters.

I would like to see a more tactical control, not just battle cards.

Also the ability to freely move camera, lock-on to a specific ship, or spectate from a set cinematic angle.

I think adding voices to the battle would be awesome! I think it would be a cheap way to add an epic feel to the battles. The voices could even be submitted by the community to cut the cost of voice actors!

I would like to see more pre-battle options. Like other people have said earlier, being able to setup things such as formations and basic tactics (protecting and/or targeting certain ships for example).



It would be interesting to be able set specific ships to do things such as hang back during certain phases (gain defense and lose the ability to attack?) and then move forward during other phases (gaining attack and negatives to defense).



Just some random ideas from initial messing around, but the system seems capable of lots of expansion while keeping the core ideas intact.

@ Wenchbane



Change your race by clicking on the portrait on game setup

Apologies if this has already been stated in another thread, So far only played the Imperials (Still haven't figured out how to change races)



I'd like to see Carrier type vessels (as in drones and fighters or drone-fighters carriers?) (scout carriers even?)

definitely a research into a bigger deck as was stated before or at least being able to *shuffle* the deck to how you'd like it eg, close combat, medium range and then back to close and cut out long range entirely.



I know this is a funny one but how about planets shooting at invading forces or enemy ships that are sitting/blockading your gravity wells? Have a couple of upgrades that provide and upgrade that kind of ability. Or set up static defence around the well?

Okay, I have to say that I normally stay away from any 4x that doesn't have tactical combat. I'm a die hard MOO2 and Sots player and in my opinion a strong tactical combat is a must in any 4x I play.



That being said, I find the ES combat an amazingly fresh an enjoyable take on tactical combat. It brings in meaningful consequence to your actions in battle but it doesn't bog the player down with unnecessary detail. It seems concise enough to keep the game moving but I feel satisfied knowing I just watched the enemy ships get shredded.



I know improved camera controls are coming soon but I would also like to see a bit more detail and options in the actual combat itself. Possibly formations or being able to specify engagement ranges or targeting orders for groups of ships or ship types. I'd like to still keep things general and at a high level but I feel engaging the player a bit more in the decision making process would help immerse those of us that are tactical combat junkies a bite more.



Again, fantastic work on ES, this one that I will keep on my hard drive alongside MOO and the other greats for many years to come.

I think the combat system is really elegant and would probably be even better in MP as you try and work out an opponent's tendencies over time. The only thing right now I'd really like added is the ability to pause.

I'll just repeat what I said on an older topic about combat:

A bit more of tactics would be good, mostly :



* which targets hit in priority (with a list)



* formation (big ship in front, then small ones / the other way around / ...) Each formation giving penalties to some weapons/ships. For example with the big at the front and small at the back, the small could not use the long range weapons but only the medium and small ones etc...



Aesthetic point of view: right now I didn't feel the power of the different fleets and the dramatics of victory or defeat. Playing with sounds could give some "space opera" feeling like some voices to stress out the dynamic of the combats: "they've lost their battleship", "damage all over the engine desk", "abandon the ship", etc...

Thinking a bit more about that, I believe it could be integrated to the card system with just a larger deck (5 cards for example: 1. which formation 2. which order of targets do you want to prioritise 3. long range 4. medium range 5. short range).

i think they should add more variety and lessen the chance of luck, for example allowing for 2 cards per phase,

I rather like the battle system, but I definitely agree there should be both pause and speed-up options added in. Speed options are really a must to avoid it getting tedious.

Gone a fair way into a few games and the battles are getting a bit slow paced for me personally, would like to have some options options which increase the speed of a battle. Might be fairly useful for reducing the time of multiplayer games too, when multiplayer is actually added that is.

I have to agree on the combat items a lot of people are saying. Right now, it is pretty rinse-and-repeat, which can be a bit bland. I'm glad to hear more camera options are being worked on. A free camera would be a welcome addition!



As for the actual combat, I was a little disappointed when I first started playing, as Steam of course didn't have any indication that it was card-based combat. When it said simultaneous turn based, I was thinking fallout/fallout-tactics style with the ship combat, which would have been awesome. Like others, I would like the ability to set formations, target enemies with specific ships/abilities, and have more control over the outcome.



With that said, after playing for a little while, I don't necessarily mind the combat system, but I fear it lacks the depth to remain interesting.



Also, if I have multiple fleets in a system, I would expect that I could have them all join battle against a foe, not have to do it one at a time. You should be able to select which fleets in the system can join the battle... and if you chose more than one fleet on an attack move, it would use the attack move for all fleets selected.



One idea for the pirates/enemy/multiplayer component of ships escaping through your system before you can attack: You should be able to assign a fleet to "blockade" a system. If an enemy shows up, they must fight that fleet before being able to pass through. That would solve a lot of the simultaneous turn based issues with them escaping past. That way too, if a blockade is not set up, they can sneak through the system.



I really like the game, and I think it has the potential to go into my top 10 with some combat system tweaks! I love everything else about it.

More cards and tactical options (Though I'm not very far in the game, so for all I know that could come later) and camera angles of course, but what I would REALLY like to see is more pre-battle stuff. Setting up formations (Not necessarily ship by ship level of detail, but maybe some general choices that would give you a % bonus to offense or defense or whatever else) would be really neat, as well as some other combat choices to make before the battle begins. Again, nothing super in depth and detailed here, but general choices that would effect the battle and how your fleets worked.

Without changing the actual combat model new cards/effects could be added to reflect formations/targeting. Formation cards to let the big ships tank damage, to have small ships take hits for the big ones, targeting the strongest, weakest ships first. All this spiced with some slight advantages and disadvantages.

I would like to see an ability to designate targets for focused fire, as it is now it feels more about having more guns and the better draw in rock paper scissors. Everything else is great but the combat is far to shallow. If it isn't fleshed out it will be the main complaint from future buyers.

gunnergoz wrote:
Just give us old TBS players a chance with this tactical battle idea...as it is now, it just happens too fast for me to figure out who is what and doing what to whom. Give us a TBS option for it and I'll be happy. Or at least a speed selection and a pause button. It is so far the one part of the game that truly galls and disappoints me.

You can see what battle cards are available outside of combat and sort of "pre-plan" by clicking on a fleet and there should be a button that is like "battle options" or something. Sorry i forget the exact wording.

It's thought for multiplayer. I'd like twice as much time for combat. And a way outside combat to review cards available so I can prepare.

Just give us old TBS players a chance with this tactical battle idea...as it is now, it just happens too fast for me to figure out who is what and doing what to whom. Give us a TBS option for it and I'll be happy. Or at least a speed selection and a pause button. It is so far the one part of the game that truly galls and disappoints me.

The core gameplay of the combat are the cards. Maybe add some special cards that would allow bonuses for the all the next steps (so if you chose a tight formation in long range you can have bonuses/maluses at mid and close range).

Delta_v wrote:
Okay, I have to say that I normally stay away from any 4x that doesn't have tactical combat. I'm a die hard MOO2 and Sots player and in my opinion a strong tactical combat is a must in any 4x I play.



That being said, I find the ES combat an amazingly fresh an enjoyable take on tactical combat. It brings in meaningful consequence to your actions in battle but it doesn't bog the player down with unnecessary detail. It seems concise enough to keep the game moving but it doesn't seem to slow the overall pace down.



I know improved camera controls are coming soon but I would also like to see a bit more detail and options in the actual combat itself. Possibly formations or being able to specify engagement ranges or targeting orders for groups of ships or ship types. I'd like to still keep things general and at a high level but I feel engaging the player a bit more in the decision making process would help immerse those of us that are tactical combat junkies a bite more.



Again, fantastic work on ES, this one that I will keep on my hard drive alongside MOO and the other greats for many years to come.

Yes, I'd love to be able to designate different tactics to sub-fleets so to speak. It'd make the battles a lot more dynamic and reduce the paper scissors stone effect a bit. Engagement ranges are a must! If I have kinetic weapons i'd want to get up close and personal very quickly. It'd make having fast kinetic ships a must if you want to get close enough...