VieuxChat wrote:
Are you sure you burnt the pirates thanks to the hero ? If he has 0 in offense or defense he's useless. Maybe that was your ships that were pretty good.

This, I took out two pirate ships with a scout ship once... So I'm not sure you can praise him on this one..

Inquisitioner wrote:
Not sure I follow, You lose one of your super high leveled hero and open spot for two new? Bringing your cap from 3 to 4? So since you retired one you can now hire two.

That's the idea : you have to make choices. If you want more badass heroes, you have a trade-off to make. And you'll need time to level up your new heroes.

With that system, the heroes can still be overpowered, but it becomes a matter of planning. You could have some really excellent heroes, if your opponenet manage theirs better, you'll lose.

I would like to see heroes in a more of an 'advisory' capacity. If anyone has played Europa Universalis 3 'heroes' are advisors you hire to fill three slots. There are something like 25 to choose from but they provide very specific bonuses.



I think you should be able to hire heroes to fill three (or more?) positions in your empire. Grand Admiral/Head of Science/President/Diplomat/whatever. They would provide a smaller but wider influence over your whole empire - 5% food/cogs/science/etc for the empire. Your grand admiral would gain xp whenever you won any fight, head of science would gain xp whenever you finished a tech, on top of their passive levelling.



The heroes you would normally have in your fleets could be replaced by generic admirals with fixed stats depending on what you wanted that fleet to do - Kinetic/Beams/Siege/etc. They could gain levels, but it would automatically build on the stats they have (5%>6% beam damage etc).



It seems... ridiculous that heroes are so powerful but they can only ever be helping such a tiny part of your empire at any one time. They should be inspiring the whole empire!

I would be in favor of having more average or mediocre heroes, and the extreme rare super hero might come along.



Like, if they added a new stat called "Potential" which would range 1-5 which would determine the bonus amount from each of the upgrades.



1 = 50% of population of heroes

2 = 25%

3 = 15%

4 = 7%

5 = 3%



As it is right now, it makes no sense to get rid of heroes, but if we know their potential is higher than our other leaders we would pick them up in a heart beat.





and I also agree to having a larger hero max or no max at all.

I second that.

halflotus wrote:
They are too strong, and the early game hero gameplay is weird. I have 3 available right off the bat, seems like overkill when I have 1 system and 0 gold - and I'm getting 3 popups first turn when I cant use any of them. They should be more rare in early imo.

By turn 100, a poorly developed system (no industrial improvements, small pop) with a levelled up hero is producing things 3 times as quickly as my most productive system.



My levelled up admiral is demolishing enemy cruiser fleets with a few average corvettes/destroyers.



Heroes should give bonuses, but their current abilities are just too much imo. I think that toning them down, and letting you have more heroes is the way to go.

They are too strong, and the early game hero gameplay is weird. I have 3 available right off the bat, seems like overkill when I have 1 system and 0 gold - and I'm getting 3 popups first turn when I cant use any of them. They should be more rare in early imo.

VieuxChat wrote:
Hero are powerfull, sure. But that's why they're so limited.

I'd like a "retire" option for them that would let you engage 1 more heroe than before (you can have 3 heroes, you retire 1 and you can have 4). Retiring would need some requirement to be available.

Not sure I follow, You lose one of your super high leveled hero and open spot for two new? Bringing your cap from 3 to 4? So since you retired one you can now hire two.

Hero are powerfull, sure. But that's why they're so limited.

I'd like a "retire" option for them that would let you engage 1 more heroe than before (you can have 3 heroes, you retire 1 and you can have 4). Retiring would need some requirement to be available.

Shawhaw wrote:
Had an adminstrator flying with a fleet (had a moment when assigning heroes ) and Him+1 warrior from the Hisho took out 5 pirate ships. Did i mention he was only level 1? yeah they are a lil OP so perhaps raise the cost of them initially and tweak them down a bit? It's still a blast to use them though

Try the same thing with a fleet of colony ships. Lets see if they burn those pirate ships

I think heroes work well. They represent one of those commanders who is capable of repeated victories in the face of overwhelming odds. Lets face it in the current battle system even picking the right cards wont save you wehn you're outnumbered or facing a fleet with larger ships in it. Cards do make you able to change what should be a draw into a victory, but they don't let you face clearly superior forces.

I still prefer having few overpowered once to run my empire than a bunch of medicore once. Then every fleet and sector would have one hero in every faction. Would be harder to level em up since every battle would have an admiral and every sector a Governor to aid against invasions. And you'd be spammed every turn with level ups due to there being so many.

joxang wrote:
Ditto on this, many many times over.



Imo, having 3 supermen/woman working for your empire is not as fun as having a dozen administrators and a few admirals, all of which give small boosts in different ways, whom you can juggle around your planets and fleets.

I would love if there were more and less powerful heros.



Perhaps every system can have a governor, and every fleet a captain with minor stats. It literally gives a 'face' to each of your resources. Keep a few hero units around to allow focused bonuses.



An option would be:

They show up automatically.

You can overrule them with your hero units, but otherwise you are stuck with them for at least 25 turns.

After 25 turns you can kick someone out, but they get replaced by random statted level 1 dude.



A balancing option would be to have each unit have a negative trait, that gets larger as he levels up.

MattStriker wrote:
I'd like to see less powerful heroes but a larger selection of them. Only three (or maybe more once you go really far down the tech tree, haven't found anything yet) is nowhere near enough. MoO2, still basically the Game To Beat in the space 4X genre, had a total of 8 heroes divided into two categories, which was just enough to have a noticeable effect. Three heroes you have to split between colony support and fleet leadership, well...in that case you may as well not include the feature at all as far as I'm concerned.

Ditto on this, many many times over.



Imo, having 3 supermen/woman working for your empire is not as fun as having a dozen administrators and a few admirals, all of which give small boosts in different ways, whom you can juggle around your planets and fleets.

They level too quickly and it's too easy/cheap to clone them. Cloning should be more expensive and take several turns.

I'd like to see less powerful heroes but a larger selection of them. Only three (or maybe more once you go really far down the tech tree, haven't found anything yet) is nowhere near enough. MoO2, still basically the Game To Beat in the space 4X genre, had a total of 8 heroes divided into two categories, which was just enough to have a noticeable effect. Three heroes you have to split between colony support and fleet leadership, well...in that case you may as well not include the feature at all as far as I'm concerned.

Shawhaw wrote:
Had an adminstrator flying with a fleet (had a moment when assigning heroes ) and Him+1 warrior from the Hisho took out 5 pirate ships. Did i mention he was only level 1? yeah they are a lil OP so perhaps raise the cost of them initially and tweak them down a bit? It's still a blast to use them though

Are you sure you burnt the pirates thanks to the hero ? If he has 0 in offense or defense he's useless. Maybe that was your ships that were pretty good.

Had an adminstrator flying with a fleet (had a moment when assigning heroes ) and Him+1 warrior from the Hisho took out 5 pirate ships. Did i mention he was only level 1? yeah they are a lil OP so perhaps raise the cost of them initially and tweak them down a bit? It's still a blast to use them though

Heroes are a bit too OP though. A fleet with no admiral vs a fleet with one is bound to lose. I don't have a hero for every single one of my fleets!

They wouldn't really be heroes if they weren't a little bit OP

Zor wrote:
Cloning heroes ? I've missed something tho ...

Cloning is a Horatio race special

Cloning heroes ? I've missed something tho ...

Haha, makes only sense for them to have such power when being so few. And they do only level up fast in the beginning, later it's slower. So no worries.

I found out about the limit the hard way. Note to self: RTFM.

Also, the number of heroes you can have is limited.

Also, keep in mind that balancing is one of the last things to get done in the game, in the Beta to Gold stages. ATM we're just trying to get features to work.

At game begin, perhaps, but keep in mind, they are limited in number.

tgb wrote:
They level too quickly and it's too easy/cheap to clone them. Cloning should be more expensive and take several turns.