Do You Really Terraform?

Mew

United

14 100g2g pts

11 years ago

Jul 15, 2013, 9:28:04 AM

With the new Gas Giants being super farms for specific resources I do indeed find it useful.

I also see no point if owning let's say an arid planet if you want dust. Simply terraform it.

Lava, Barren Terran Jungle Ocean are always preferable for FIDS and the new gas giants want you basically to optimize your system for maximum specialization.

I do agree with the notion that terraforming comes late. I would be more useful in the early game. Cost should be the same so you have a decision to make. Should I make this planet a lava planet so I can jump start my industry or should I make a barren one so I can get tons of science early.

Scrangos

Newcomer

Scrangos

Newcomer

11 years ago

Jul 20, 2013, 12:23:18 AM

Low tier planets are specialist planets, like said on the thread. Yes they give the most of what their specialize in, but little of anything else. The higher tier you go the more jack of all trades it becomes. You do need food from high tier or lack of disapproval to go along with the specialist planets.

VIPNasarog

Analyzer Officer

I know nothing. To learn more, come visit us @ eXplorminate.net

VIPNasarog

Analyzer Officer

36 700g2g pts

11 years ago

Jul 19, 2013, 8:20:25 PM

I used to, but I haven't played with Disharmony or the new updated Vanilla yet.

Bad213Boy

Newcomer

Bad213Boy

Newcomer

11 years ago

Jul 19, 2013, 7:42:01 PM

Not only that, that tech is like the last one on that branch.

Autochthon

Vodyani Sower

Autochthon

Vodyani Sower

11 years ago

Jul 16, 2013, 7:55:33 PM

Advocate wrote:
Hardly Fixed that for ya.

Once you calculate the numerous anomalies and resources that give planets a fids bonus per pop you find that tier 1's far surpass gas giants. At least in food and industry.

/#/endless-space/forum/33-strategy-guides/thread/14050-which-planets-are-the-best-dysharmony

This guy's done the math to prove you wrong. Until you've gotten certain endgame tech the giant's are going to crush the T1s in industry. And they'll always crush the T1 in Science and Dust.

Edit: and another /#/endless-space/forum/27-general/thread/10286-fids-new-planetary-values-and-analysis-which-planet-is-best!

Advocate

Newcomer

Advocate

Newcomer

11 years ago

Jul 16, 2013, 7:47:38 PM

Hardly Fixed that for ya.

Once you calculate the numerous anomalies and resources that give planets a fids bonus per pop you find that tier 1's far surpass gas giants. At least in food and industry.

Autochthon

Vodyani Sower

Autochthon

Vodyani Sower

11 years ago

Jul 16, 2013, 12:05:28 PM

Advocate wrote:
I've found that the population bonuses from the tier ones make their fids outputs surpass those of any other class for any fid individually and overall. The most efficient being jungles with food exploitation, once the food to industry improvement is available.

Gas giant's beat them. Hard.

Advocate

Newcomer

Advocate

Newcomer

11 years ago

Jul 16, 2013, 1:51:39 AM

I've found that the population bonuses from the tier ones make their fids outputs surpass those of any other class for any fid individually and overall. The most efficient being jungles with food exploitation, once the food to industry improvement is available.

Autochthon

Vodyani Sower

Autochthon

Vodyani Sower

11 years ago

Jul 15, 2013, 1:53:46 PM

The middles tier planets are usually decent compromises with the other tiers actually. Arid planets have their uses over gas giants (more food) and over Terran (more dust). Desert planets are in the same boat. It's just that people assume they either want maximum FIDS total or maximum focus on one FIDS. In reality mixing the two can reach an optimal point on the curve.

Because there IS a sweet spot in between. Also terrafarming up is useful for approval.

Ca_Putt

Old

Ca_Putt

Old

32 800g2g pts

11 years ago

Jul 15, 2013, 11:20:20 AM

I mainly terraform to modify the Focus of a System, If there is are preferable conditions for shipbuilding(Temple, Wonder, Anomaly) it's usefull to get at least one Lava/Methane planet. Or Systems that give a Bonus to dust/Science.

Bad213Boy

Newcomer

Bad213Boy

Newcomer

11 years ago

Jul 13, 2013, 5:40:17 PM

I've yet to even use this on planets. Besides the bonuses they give you, they also give you negative bonuses that lower your approval rating. The only terraforming that is worth investing in Jungle or Ocean, and it's at the end of the tech tree. And by the time you get that far, you don't really need the bonuses your systems because they're already generating 100's of resources.

MODNosferatiel

Informer

"God's in his heaven, all's right with the world." Nerv Motto, Neon Genesis Evangelion

MODNosferatiel

Informer

47 300g2g pts

11 years ago

Jul 15, 2013, 2:46:19 AM

As sowers, terraforming everything to tundra is a very very powerful strategy.

With my custom sowers, I normally end up terraforming my complete empire. Their special techs of +2 FIDS on tundras and +5 approval per colonized planets makes this... let's say, your score jumps up by 20-40% depending on the size of your empire and the quality of planets before, in the time of maybe 10 turns.

Putting everything to industry exploitation allows you to do either ind->dust, ind->science or pump out fleets, everywhere.

Bad213Boy

Newcomer

Bad213Boy

Newcomer

11 years ago

Jul 14, 2013, 4:52:23 PM

Thanks for posting this. Gives me somethings to play with.

Autochthon

Vodyani Sower

Autochthon

Vodyani Sower

11 years ago

Jul 14, 2013, 4:17:42 PM

It takes a minimum of ten turns (by siege) to conquer a system. I can (depending on industry) upgrade a system by one tier in about 15 turns. Once you factor in strike time on newly conquered systems (5 or more turns) you realize upgrading current systems is usually more efficient, depending on industry.

Not to mention an upgraded system can have 2-3 times the industry output.

Obviously the best tactic is just to do both. T1 planets have the best total FIDS output across the board, with Gas Giants making the best concentrated systems. Conquering systems is effective, but there are non-military paths top win the game where having upgraded systems is more effective.

For instance Science and Wonder victories benefit from terraforming. As do economic and Diplomatic victories to a lesser extent. The only victory condition that doesn't care about terraforming is military.

Bad213Boy

Newcomer

Bad213Boy

Newcomer

11 years ago

Jul 14, 2013, 3:20:58 PM

Interesting. I usually just leave the system as is and go conquer ones already developed. I just figured the time it takes to redevelop a system the way you want it, you'd have conquered a whole system that has already been developed by your enemy. Not only do you take their system, but you rob them of the time spent developing it. I rarely care what my approval rating is. I might have 5 or more systems on strike, but as long as I own the system, I know they will come around. At least the enemy can't use it. Rotating my Industrial Heroes on newly conquered planets definitely helps increase the approval rating faster. And usually by the time I want to terraform, I probably don't need to. Maybe these kind of techs should be included after you're able to colonize that planet. I feel if I could use it right away at the beginning of the game, it might be more useful.

I wonder if someone can test whether the time spent in redeveloping your own system and compare that to the time it takes to conquer systems.

Autochthon

Vodyani Sower

Autochthon

Vodyani Sower

11 years ago

Jul 14, 2013, 12:53:28 PM

I tend to terraform extensively in the mid and late game. Especially with the sowers.

Radioactive_Piranha

Newcomer

Radioactive_Piranha

Newcomer

11 years ago

Jul 14, 2013, 12:44:55 AM

Sometimes terraforming a barren to lava is a good way to jump start production on a new system.

Autochthon

Vodyani Sower

Autochthon

Vodyani Sower

11 years ago

Jul 13, 2013, 7:55:45 PM

Those "negative bonuses" are the normal penalties for a planet type. Going from a low tier planet to a higher tier planet is a net gain in total FIDS as well as happiness.

Additionally, the difference between tiers is HUGE in terms of total FIDS output. Jungle and Ocean are also worthwhile planets. And believe me you always want those bonuses. Especially once you gain lategame tech to convert food to industry.

NewAgeOfPower

Old Survivor

NewAgeOfPower

Old Survivor

11 600g2g pts

11 years ago

Jul 13, 2013, 6:58:42 PM

Mass producing heliums in systems that have approval bonuses can generate crazy amounts of science. Especially if you took Crowded Planets and found a system loaded with small planets... HNNGGG.

Mass producing hydrogen/desert/arid seems to reward you less, but maybe if you played with Horatio affinity tons of Arid could pay off.

obsidia

Newcomer

obsidia

Newcomer

11 years ago

Jul 13, 2013, 6:28:35 PM

tech victory strats normally involve terraforming everything into barrens or arctics

other races have bonuses which make terraforming worthwhile too, such as automatons