Design Broken/invulnerable Ships (?!)

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merlinschmidt

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merlinschmidt

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18 900g2g pts

11 years ago

Aug 4, 2013, 12:30:33 PM

While playing with Harmony on "normal" against some AI´s, an enemy Harmony Ai build a invulnerable Ship on his last System.

So here is, how it works (even if it should not?):

The Missle Defence Module gives -4% Hull Weakness as well as 90 Defence, costing only 4t weight. The Enemy Ship seems to have about 20 of this Modules (according the ships missle defence). So the damage formular for this ship should look like DAMAGE * (1-1800/1800+60)=DAMAGE*0.032 for missles, while the rest of the weapons should make full dmg.

Somehow it seems, that the hull weakness is reduced below 0%, as in the fight (auto + manuell) the ships takes ZERO damage.

I will build some similar ships now to further investigate. But one thing is clear: somewhere is a bad bug :-).

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merlinschmidt

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merlinschmidt

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18 900g2g pts

11 years ago

Aug 4, 2013, 12:56:13 PM

After some testing: All Ships with 25+ Missle Defence Modules are invulnerable against all kinds of weapons (bomber/fighter not tested, coming next).

This testing was done with Beta patch, so 1.1.14 (or so).

There need to be some serious changes i think.

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KrayZee

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KrayZee

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100g2g pts

11 years ago

Aug 4, 2013, 1:19:53 PM

If I'm not mistaken there is a line you can add to give ships min% hull weakness values, I thought they added that in the beta patch though, by the looks of it - it turns out they didn't

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thuvian

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thuvian

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9 800g2g pts

11 years ago

Aug 4, 2013, 3:23:46 PM

This was initially discussed and address by meedoc in /#/endless-space/forum/33-strategy-guides/thread/14058-accuracy . Essentially what happens if HullWeakness is reduced to 0 (100 * -100% = 0). This makes ships take effectively 0 damage from any attack. His solution was to limit HW to 25%. This increases ship defenses by 400%.

However, it does not address the other passives and is really odd solution anyway. If you've looked at the shields, they actually have negative HullWeakness and Deflectors have negative accuracy. So by adding defenses to your ships you are making them worse. As part of a crusade I've been advocating the complete removal of all passives from defenses and have show math displaying the problems with the mechanics in the above linked thread. I also have a demonstration mod in the mod forum that removes the passives if you don't want to make them yourself.

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Antera

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Antera

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11 years ago

Aug 4, 2013, 4:09:28 PM

Amen to that. The whole concept of hullweakness was not well thought out. Should have made it fixed at 100 for all ships, maybe leave in the modifier on engine and adjust other stats like HP, defense, etc. to balance various things.

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merlinschmidt

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merlinschmidt

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18 900g2g pts

11 years ago

Aug 4, 2013, 6:39:42 PM

I read the linked thread and can only sign the shown problems with the game mechanic.

I do think that most people playing endless space do not nearly understand to which extend a weapon/defence module contributes to the effectivness of their ship designs.

Due to several side effects and the lack of ingame-description of eg. hull weakness they can only guess how adding any defence module improves their ship (and to what extend).

Despite these bugs and BIG problems the act. design has, we need

a) a less complicated system

b) description of all effects/modifiers ingame

c) and a display of all modified values of the ship in the ship-designer and the impact for combat

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VIPMTB-Fritz

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VIPMTB-Fritz

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24 500g2g pts

11 years ago

Aug 5, 2013, 6:07:30 AM

merlinschmidt wrote:
I read the linked thread and can only sign the shown problems with the game mechanic.

I do think that most people playing endless space do not nearly understand to which extend a weapon/defence module contributes to the effectivness of their ship designs.

Due to several side effects and the lack of ingame-description of eg. hull weakness they can only guess how adding any defence module improves their ship (and to what extend).

Despite these bugs and BIG problems the act. design has, we need

a) a less complicated system

b) description of all effects/modifiers ingame

c) and a display of all modified values of the ship in the ship-designer and the impact for combat