First of all sorry for my English

Patch 1.1.34 disharmony

I have read many treads and this topic is to confirm my final guesses and ask some questions)



1) Due formula

Damage dealt = Damage * (1 - [defense/(defense+hullweakness)])

where:

hull weakness : base value is 100. x3, x2, x1 for small,medium, big ship

defense : base value is 0. increases by defense modules

example 1:

defense module has value 200, ship has hull weakness 100x3

x1 defense module : Final damage = damage * (1-(200/(200+300) = 0,6

x2 defense module : Final damage = damage * (1-(400/(400+300) ~ 0,43

x3 defense module : Final damage = damage * (1-(600/(600+300) ~ 0,33

example 2:

defense module has value 200, ship has hull weakness 100x2

x1 defense module : Final damage = 0.5

x2 defense module : Final damage = 0.33

x3 defense module : Final damage = 0.25



after third module we getting 75% damage mitigation.

Penalty for stuck more modules and guide https://www.games2gether.com/endless-space/forum/33-strategy-guides/thread/14056-beginner-s-guide-to-disharmony-improving-your-game show me to stop on x3 modules

My first question:

All what i wrote above is 100% correct?

Do i need 2-4 defense modules for "soft" cap of 75% mitigation and nothing else?



2) Due formula

Accuracy=Accuracy*(1+successful evades) - evasion (reset each round)

and guide https://www.games2gether.com/endless-space/forum/33-strategy-guides/thread/14058-accuracy

and wiki http://endlessspace.wikia.com/wiki/Combat_(Disharmony)

Base Accuracy table (from BattleDescriptor.xml)

[HTML] LongVer MediVer ShortVer

Long Range 100% 33% 10%

Medi Range 10% 100% 10%

Short Range 10% 33% 100%[/HTML]

Accuracy table for kinetic (based https://www.games2gether.com/endless-space/forum/27-general/thread/10538-understanding-weapon-range + my calculations)

[HTML] LongVer MediVer ShortVer (1/0.8/1)

Long Range 100% 26.4% 10%

Medi Range 10% 80% 10%

Short Range 10% 26.4% 100%[/HTML]

Accuracy table for beam (based https://www.games2gether.com/endless-space/forum/27-general/thread/10538-understanding-weapon-range + my calculations)

[HTML] LongVer MediVer ShortVer (1.1/0.9/1.1)

Long Range 110% 29.7% 11%

Medi Range 11% 90% 11%

Short Range 11% 29.7% 110%[/HTML]

Accuracy table for rocket (based https://www.games2gether.com/endless-space/forum/27-general/thread/10538-understanding-weapon-range + my calculations)

[HTML] LongVer MediVer ShortVer (0.9//0.7/0.9/)

Long Range 90% 23.1% 9%

Medi Range 9% 70% 9%

Short Range 9% 23.1% 90%[/HTML]

Damage modificator for all weapons (from BattleDescriptor.xml)

[HTML] LongVer MediVer ShortVer

Long Range 100% 50% 50%

Medi Range 50% 100% 50%

Short Range 50% 50% 100%[/HTML]

summary i understood that:

example: accuracy of attacker is 50%, chance to dodge of defender is 50%, every dodge increase count of successful evades by 1

first attack chance to hit : 0.5*(1+0)-0.5 = 0 and that means defender has chance to dodge 100%

second attack chance to hit : 0.5(1+1)-0.5 = 0.5 and that means defender has chance to dodge 50%

third attack chance to hit : 0.5(1+2)-0.5 = 1 and that means defender has chance to dodge 0%

after we reach "1" every atack will hit defender from any ship and any source (kinetic, beams)

game has hard hit cap 90%

"successful evades" reset to "0" every "round"

here is my questions:

1) Does "successful evades" reset itself to "0" every round or every phase (every 4 rounds)

2) All what i wrote above is 100% correct?

3) where can i get Accuracy table for 1.1.34 or table for 1.1.17 is correct?

4) which bonuses for Accuracy stack and what time exaclty they stack after or before penalty?

5) Is this a good strategy?

Use x3 kinetic deflectors and x3 shields to reach soft cap of 75%, after that stack 100500 melee range kinetics for these reasons:

a) Use kinetics spamming of atacks to faster reach hit cap of 90% in every round (abuse of game mechanics)

b) Use melee modification of kinetics due next abuse of game mechanics : with easy reachable 75% dmg mitigation cap, most of fights end in melee phase where kinetics has more Projectiles and has no range penalty

6) when we hit kinetic salv with 60 Projectiles.. are we hiting with all 60, or chance to hit individual, or any another conditions?

7) any suggestions for beams (my favorite weapon in vanila)

ty for response

1. Your math is correct, but your interpretation is flawed.

With 0 defense it takes 450 damage to kill a ship with 450 health and 100 hullweakness.

With 100 defense it takes 900 damage to kill a ship with 450 health and 100 hullweakness.

With 200 defense it takes 1350 damage to kill a ship with 450 health and 100 hullweakness.

With 300 defense it takes 1800 damage to kill a ship with 450 health and 100 hullweakness.

With 400 defense it takes 2250 damage to kill a ship with 450 health and 100 hullweakness.

....



2. Evasion disorientation is 5% not 50%.

2.1 Every round, 4 times per phase, up to 16 times per battle

2.2 No. Evasion disorientation is 5%

2.3 weapons.xml + battledescription.xml

2.4 Unknown

2.5 Depends who you are fighting. I currently am seeing how far I can get with a 1 of each defense + max long range kinetics destroyers.

2.5a. We don't know the order that weapons hit. Kinetics first or missiles first.

2.5b. Again, the 75% mitigation is not a good way to consider this. Most fights effectively end in the long range phase.

2.6 All 60 hit or miss together

2.7 Beams are not as bad as missiles?

1. Your math is correct, but your interpretation is flawed.

I thought about that, another point of view? but core is same: changing amount of damage

....



2. Evasion disorientation is 5% not 50%.

agreed, my fault. i'll try to read more about it





2.7 Beams are not as bad as missiles?

1. Beams shots 2x per phase, missiles one.

and.. quote from wiki

Flak MechanicsEdit

Flak modules operate very differently than other defense modules. First off, all flak modules in a fleet will act against all missiles targeting ANY ship in the fleet. This means that missiles must penetrate all of the fleets flak defenses! Effective missile fleets then must contain a large portion of missile weapons.

its make missiles worse compared with beams.

Based on quote above since any ship can bring down all missiles, i built one "support middle ship" for every big fleet, with 4x deflector/shield, and 24 Flak modules, some other modules: radar, fleet repair, +for fleet damage/defense module, and one intersector special module.

Im think these ships+hero bonuses successfully protect my fleets vs AI fleets with 300-1200 missiles fists ships



Could u explain some interceptor's/bomber's mechanic?

Do they ignore standard armor types?

Do they effective vs big ships or vs small ships? Or they totally useless.



And most important question for me now:

For example i have ship with 10x kinetic weapon module. Does ship's salvo count as 1 or 10 per round?

1. Your math is correct, but your interpretation is flawed.

I thought about that, another point of view? but core is same: changing amount of damage

....

Your argument was that 75% was a soft cap. It isn't. Every unit of defense increases the amount of effective damage you can take. It does change the relative damage you take. The wiki combat section you have cited talks about this in more detail. Practically though, defense is inferior to offense and you should design your ships with minimal defenses and maximize offense. Unless you are playing other people, in which case it depends on what you are trying to accompolish and the resources you have available to you.

2.7 Beams are not as bad as missiles?

1. Beams shots 2x per phase, missiles one.

and.. quote from wiki

Flak MechanicsEdit

Flak modules operate very differently than other defense modules. First off, all flak modules in a fleet will act against all missiles targeting ANY ship in the fleet. This means that missiles must penetrate all of the fleets flak defenses! Effective missile fleets then must contain a large portion of missile weapons.

its make missiles worse compared with beams.

Based on quote above since any ship can bring down all missiles, i built one "support middle ship" for every big fleet, with 4x deflector/shield, and 24 Flak modules, some other modules: radar, fleet repair, +for fleet damage/defense module, and one intersector special module.

Im think these ships+hero bonuses successfully protect my fleets vs AI fleets with 300-1200 missiles fists ships

Try using long range kinetics instead of beams. Generally it isn't worth the trouble to design support ships. Guns are cheaper than defenses and keeping track of fleet composition is obnoxious when you are dealing with large numbers of fleets. I support using 1-3 destroyer designs focusing on different weapons and then design big ships when I want to be inefficient. Mind you, I also like the Harmony, and that may influence my designs. It might be possible to truly design a race/ship that is very very effective by being defensive, but I haven't seen anyone demonstrate this yet. Many people make the claim, but it is based on fighting the AI who is inept and their ships don't hold up well in a real game.

Could u explain some interceptor's/bomber's mechanic?

Do they ignore standard armor types?

Do they effective vs big ships or vs small ships? Or they totally useless.

They doubled the damage that bombers do in 1.1.27. Bombers and fighters are very expensive, but don't contribute to combat until the medium and melee phases. Given that most combat is effectively over in the long range phase, I see little point in that. They are also expensive. I can buy 4 long range kinetics for the price of 1 level 1 fighter module. If I can build a fleet for $98 per destroyer and you build a fleet for $120 per destroyer and our fleets annihilate each other. I will usually win (given similar levels of production). Since the Harmony destroyer v2 has a -75% size bonus to bombers and destroyers I tend to add one just for amusement value. I don't know how effective they really are. I believe they are not stopped by defenses, so they do actual health damage at full value (described per module). They are equally useful/useless against all sizes of ships.

And most important question for me now:

For example i have ship with 10x kinetic weapon module. Does ship's salvo count as 1 or 10 per round?

Salvo is a technical term which you are not using correctly here, this is described in the wiki. I shall summarize here.

A Kinetic Level 1 Melee Module shoots 60 shots per salvo per round per phase. All of these shots hit or miss together. Each module is independent of each other, except they all target the same target.

If you had 10 level 1 Melee Kinetic Modules at melee range with a min and max damage of 1. You have shoot 10 salvos (each containing 60 shots) at 1 target. You would shoot 4 times per phase. You would either hit or miss with each of those 10 salvos, doing (60,120,180,...up to 600) damage (before defense effects). This is why missiles are bad. Missiles shoot once per phase. If you have 1 million missiles on one ship, those 1 million missiles would hit 1 target during each of the range phases. You would, at most, kill 3 targets per combat with this ship.