I read someone's post about fighters and so and so forth.



But one person was right; the purpose of the fighter is not clear.



Reflecting on that I made some ideas of my own.



Knowing that glass cannon destroyer spam is still pretty much the way to go and is threatening to make ES a mono hull game, I shall then exploit that, to give credibility to the units that I suggest; give these units a clear purpose and to give everyone a more fulfilling experience in ES.



I hereby reintroduce--the fighter and introduce, the frigate.



Let us start with the fighter.



I. Fighter Wing



100-120 hit points(each fighter, total of 5 fighters)

30 tonnage(200 total)

25 production(base, overall production cost inclusive of the fighter count)

1 Command Point



A fighter wing will be a unit of five fighters in one Command Point. A fighter's design will be of less tonnage than the destroyer individually, but overall they have more; a single fighter may have no more than 40 tons at full tech. They also have more HP as one unit, about 100 to 120 each, but since they are targeted individually, loses are always expected. By the nature of combat however, it is uncommon to lose an entire wing.



Since units here are targeted one by one, a fighter unit is a reliable counter to a glass cannon destroyer fleet; no matter how much firepower you have, you can only shoot at one. Also, if the opponent has 22 destroyers, then you will have an equivalent of 110 fighters. In the right hands this can be considered a hard counter, as 110 units will toast any unit with low hp and defense, plus they can take the casualties. In this case the most advisable weapons for fighters are beams and kinetics(depending on the circumstances kinetics will come out on top); missiles on fighters is the ultimate definition of overkill.



The fighter wing unit will favor flexibility; it can be a reliable offensive unit, a terrific defensive unit, and a good support unit. But it is not amazing in any area due to it's low tonnage, hp and defense. With just 40 tons at full tech, it is not advisable to put the best weapons on fighters without the cargo upgrade.



Because fighters wings are composed of five individual units, missiles are ineffective weapons against them; beams and above all, kinetics will be the bane of fighter wings. But a fleet of kinetics ships will only be effective primarily against fighters; faced with ships of the highest kinetics defense, neut captures and hp, "anti-aircraft" ships will lose. But even a kinetic fleet will have a hard time against 110 fighters to be targeted individually.



Pros:

Five ships a unit

Low cost



Cons:

Low hp

Low tonnage



Effective against:

Corvettes

Destroyers



Less effective against:

Cruisers



Weak against:

Battleships

Dreadnoughts

Frigates(keep reading you'll know why.)



Suggested Support Modules:



Stealth Module - a unit equipped with stealth modules will always shoot first without getting shot at; there's an increased chance that a unit equipped with stealth module will be ignored in combat. Fighters should get a tonnage reduction for stealth modules.

BVR Module - a unit equipped with the BVR module increases accuracy, improving the chance to hit. Fighters should get a reduction for BVR modules.

Thrust Vector Module - a unit with thrust vector modules has increased maneuverability, thus reducing the chance to get hit. Fighters should get a reduction for Thrust Vector modules.



Now comes, my true introduction.



Ladies and gentlemen, let's welcome...



The Frigate!



450 Hitpoints

100 tonnage

30 production

Multitargeting weapons(3 targets baseline)

Requires 1 Hyperium

1 Command Point



What is special about this ship? What's the difference between the destroyer, the corvette and THIS frigate?

The destroyer is an aggressive ship, an attacker.

The corvette is a scouting workhorse, with fast feet and a wrench.

The frigate is a stalwart ship, a defender.



Now now, it's not the same with a battleship; battleships have high armor to brawl with other ships. Frigates on the other hand, serve to protect the entire fleet, not just itself. In short, it's not a knight in shining armor; it's a fencer, a duelist, excelling in the role of preventing attacks, denying attacks, redirecting attacks, and countering the opponents strengths. If the battleships defend with muscles, frigates defend with intellect and intuition; attacks are halted before they begin, and when they do begin, it's not effective.



The biggest offering of the frigate to defense is that it can attack multiple targets. And now you know why this ship counters fighters effectively. A frigate can target 3 targets in one turn, however, a frigate's firepower is weak compared to the destroyer. Therefore it lacks the punch the destroyer has to effectively hurt the larger ships such as battleships and dreadnoughts. But a frigate can stand up to a destroyer if necessary, but that's not what the frigate is for. A destroyer can destroy, but it cannot protect it's friends.



Pros:

Multitargeting

Low production cost



Cons:

Hyperium requirement

Weaker firepower compared to the destroyer



Effective against:

Corvettes

Fighters



Less effective against:

Destroyers



Weak against:

Cruisers

Battleships

Dreadnoughts



Suggested Support Modules:

Advanced Targeting Systems Module - this module alone give plus one to targeting, which means a battleships with this module can attack two targets. Frigates should have a tonnage reduction with this module.

Jammer Array Module - this module removes one attack from a unit; if one unit has a kinetics weapon module that fires four times, when faced with a ship with jammer module it can only fire three times. This module affects one random unit, and that random unit has all weapons affected, which means if all it's missile modules can only fire once per round, it will not fire at all. The amount of jammers determine how many times a weapon module is jammed. Two jammers mean a missile that fires two times cannot fire at all. Frigates should have a tonnage reduction with this module.

Targeting Array Module - this module reduces the effectiveness of the defenses of a unit, therefore making it vulnerable to the weapons of the entire fleet. Frigates should have a tonnage reduction with this module.

Soft Kill Module - this module reduces the chance to hit of the entire enemy fleet. Frigates should have a tonnage reduction with this module.

Systems Hacking Module - this module interferes with the fleet bonuses of the enemy fleet. Frigates should have a tonnage reduction with this module.

Gravity Shells - Each phase of the battle this module fires shells which explode between the two fleets, creating a gravity distortion that has a chance to alter the trajectory of enemy weapons. This is different from the Soft Kill Module which affects the enemy ship's chance to hit; gravity shells affect the projectile and not the ship. However, they greater the accuracy of the enemy ship, the lesser the chance gravity shells will affect the outcome.



That's all for now. Good gaming!

I have to disagree with your Figher concept.



What you envisioned is self-consistent, but it would look horrible in the current battle system, because the fighter wings would just move along your ships and shoot at the enemy. And anyways, I don't think that your idea is even possible, because the game engine can't possibly tell a difference between a fighter wing and one fighter - one wing would be simply a target, just like other ships.



I order to properly introduce fighters, we need to ask a few questions:

Q: What are fighters/bombers needed for in fleets?

A: For establishing space superiority, defense against bombers and surgical strikes at enemy systems



Q: Does the game have any of the features that fighters/bombers would be needed for?

A: No



So basically, the whole battle system would need to be reinvented.

This is how I see it...

We would have three things, fighters and bombers and carriers.

Ship systems would have to be made destroy-able during battle.

So... fighters and bombers would not be produced like ships. The ship classes above destroyer would have a hangar capacity, and the aircraft would spawn automatically during battle.

Via ship upgrades, you would choose how many fighters or bombers would a ship have in it's hangar. The fighters/bombers would be upgrade-able just like weapons.

There would be an additional ship class - a carrier - it's sole purpose would be to house ships.



The mechanic would be something like this:

The fleet battle would go parallel to the dog-fighting, we would be picking another set of cards for fighters and bombers just like for the regular fleet.

Fighters would attack enemy bombers or intercept enemy missiles.

Bombers would attack enemy ships or target subsystems of certain ships (damaged subsystems could either inhibit the ships combat abilities or could render a battle-card unusable).

Both types could get damaged by anti-missile flak and by kinetic/beam weapons from ships.

If space superiority is established (i.e you have knocked out the enemy fighters and bombers and you still have your own) you would get a % bonus to attack and defense fleet-wide.

When a fighter or bomber wing would get destroyed, it would just disappear from the ship (i.e the ship subsystem would vanish).

After battle, the dog-fighters would come back to their respective hangars. If there were more fighters left than hangars available, the excess ships would be abandoned.

or just make fighter as weapon module, launch them out like weapon and can be counter with some defense mod, problem solve.

@Pietrak



Though my design was consistent by itself, I wasn't able to take into full account the combat system.



However, I do insist that if their aren't built like ships, they are designed like ships.



Why?



Fighters aren't just new weapons; their ships themselves with their own weapons.



So giving way to you major points, I'm designing...well, more like utilizing free speech to share my ideas.



We have Fighter Bay Modules and Bomber Bay Modules.



Fighters won't be built or trained; for each Fighter Bay there is a total amount of fighters. Now maintaining some of my Fighter Wing design, each fighter is now a unit of its own; no more fighter wings. Practically speaking one Fighter Bay is a wing, but the mechanics are redesigned for ES combat system. However, fighters cannot be controlled by the player; they respond to the carrier or their hangar bay and are not independent units. Each fighter would still be targeted by ship weapon systems, but they would no longer behave like ships.



Fighter

100-120 hit points

30 tonnage

Plus 20% damage when defending.



Pros:

Faster than Bombers

More evasive



Cons:

Lighter weaponry

Less tonnage



Fighter Bay Module lvl.1

5 fighters per turn

20 tonnage

25 production



The modules for the fighters stay the same.



In case of HEX fighters, hexaferrum would be required of the ships with the Fighter Bays containing fighters with added tonnage. This means a carrier designed to carry these fighters with added tonnage cannot be produced without hexaferrum; it must be redesigned with regular fighters.



Bomber

140-160 hitpoints

40 tonnage

Plus 20% damage when attacking.



Pros:

More tonnage

More hp

Costs less production



Cons:

Slower than Fighters

Easier to hit



Bomber Bay lvl.1

4 bombers per turn

25 tonnage

20 production



Bombers are less sophisticated than fighters; they're not meant to have maneuverability, their more like cargo craft except they carry bombs. They have more HP, and since they're still small, kinetics are still the best way to counter them; anything slower than a beam isn't gonna catch them in time. They also have more tonnage, so they hit harder. They do more damage on the offensive than when attacking for a defending fleet. Same rules with HEX fighters.



Support Modules



Countermeasures - especially useful against annoying fighters. This will not buy a second for a bomber under Corvette attack, but against fighters, this will work well. Countermeasures work like this; whenever an attack will reach up to 160 damage, countermeasures is deployed but the bomber remains in it's critical health. Each time countermeasures are successful it reduces the chance of it succeeding against the next attack. Bombers should have a tonnage reduction.



Joint Attack Munitions - this module shares some of the range of the mother ship to the ship with this module. Bombers should have a tonnage reduction.



Now that you've mentioned carriers, I might as well design them.

Seems like my frigates are gonna be even more busy protecting the carrier.



Carrier



2000 HP(Either 1200 on par with BB and CGs, or 3000 on par with dreadnoughts. I settled for 2000)

300 tonnage

250 production

2 command points

1 Hexaferrum

-20% tonnage to Support Modules: Fighter Bays and Bomber Bays



I made the stats as halfway between BB's and Dreads; this is a carrier, it is massive but it is not a direct action ship. I put hexaferrum as a requirement as hex already increases tonnage in other ships; hex will then be used in a ship that utilizes a lot of space. Not to mention the hex will make the ship rare and valuable.



Other than that it doesn't offer much, as it is a carrier.



Looks like you gave my frigates another assignment.

Counter proposal: /#/endless-space/forum/28-game-design/thread/12751-a-method-of-implimenting-strikecraft