Mitchell wrote:
I would agree with you, if you were to play a random game and 3 players are Pilgrim and they are trying to get a total of maybe 5 or 6 Wonders its not going to be that powerful of a affinity unless your lucky to have most of them within your starting area.



Maybe if we were to look at having there starting system have a wonder within it at the start of the game, as their lore would show they are moving around the galaxy looking at the wonder's left behind by the endless to find Tor, why would they not want to start on a world with a Endless relic or wonder.

Yeah, good idea!

Yeah, I agree with you. But you have to see it like this. It's a snowball effect. If they get a bonus in the early game, they can build a big empire faster.



About the affinity... I'm not sure. It could maybe be added to the current affinity.

But I have to think about this.

Lord_S wrote:
How about if they get a total number of FIDS. As an example

+20

+20



or a combination

+10

+5%

+10

+5%

Thanks Lord_S I see what your saying I can see the name of the temple too "Endless Temple of Will Work for Food" lol...

Jokes aside, doing that would give a great boost for them, and still staying within the Lore of the Pilgrims, but will it alone be the Affinity or just an added bonus? as it would be a great for starter stats. However in later games in large maps it would not be as powerful anymore, would you agree?

How about if they get a total number of FIDS. As an example

+20

+20



or a combination

+10

+5%

+10

+5%

Lord_S wrote:
I think that would be too weak.

Didn't want it to be too OP if it was going to be given to them right at the start of the game, however you can always look as seeing if the FIDS can be changed to 10%..?



It was as an idea however if they were given a moon with a temple.

Mitchell wrote:
Are you thinking of giving them a explored moon at the start of the game with a Endless temple on it and saving the wonder for later on in the game?



If so what do you think about maybe a Temple that will give them all-rounded boost at the start of the game like,



+5% in System

+5% in System

-10% Improvement cost on System

+10% Trade Route bonuses on System

I think that would be too weak.

Igncom1 wrote:
They could have a bonus for the moons, considering that they are quite frequent and that is also a location for endless temples.

Are you thinking of giving them a explored moon at the start of the game with a Endless temple on it and saving the wonder for later on in the game?



If so what do you think about maybe a Temple that will give them all-rounded boost at the start of the game like,



+5% in System

+5% in System

-10% Improvement cost on System

+10% Trade Route bonuses on System

They could have a bonus for the moons, considering that they are quite frequent and that is also a location for endless temples.



Leave the wonders as the icing on the cake.

Mitchell wrote:
Maybe if we were to look at having there starting system have a wonder within it at the start of the game, as their lore would show they are moving around the galaxy looking at the wonder's left behind by the endless to find Tor, why would they not want to start on a world with a Endless relic or wonder.

Great idea. This would fit the lore really good. Also it would be a good trait because it gives the pilgrims a early game boost.

But I think this wonder should be

1. a endless wonder

2. on their homeplanet

3. activated already

The Pilgrims. Love their lore, love their traits. But their affinity? Aside from a few possible options early game, this affinity seems far too niche to be desirable. Rare are the times when you would wish to entirely abandon a world to the enemy. However, there is another faction who, according to their lore and affinity, should want to evacuate systems. The Cravers.



The Cravers are all about strip-mining worlds completely, consuming all resources before moving on. The current system of locust points is a good start, but I feel that it should be expanded upon. Worlds consumed by the Cravers should be wastelands, long abandoned by all but a few lingering hive workers scratching out the few remaining resources.



My suggestion:



Craver Affinity



+1 Locust Point (LP) per turn on each colonized planet.



+25% FIDS on all planets (excluding Gas Giants and Asteroids)



Planets drop one class category at 40 LP, then at every 20 LP after that.



Ability to Evacuate a Star System.





Class One planets (Terran, Ocean, Jungle) would all turn into Arid worlds after 40 LP. Arid worlds turn into Desert, and Desert Worlds turn to Barren. Tundra turns to Desert, Arctic turns to Barren. Asteroids and Gas Giants unaffected, but also don't get the FIDS bonus (hard to devour those worlds!). The FIDS bonus remains in place constantly now, to offset (somewhat) the planet's dropping in viability. Late game a Craver player can always try to terraform their worlds to make them better, but the LP don't go away, and every 20 LP, those worlds will drop once more. Might it not be better to just leave the system once it's strip-mined and dump your voracious Hives elsewhere?



Of course, this leaves the Pilgrims without an affinity. So what might fit them best? Since the release of Endless Space, there have been a number of excellent, free updates, including the introduction of Wonders, many of which were constructed by the Endless. I can easily imagine the Pilgrims wanting desperately to study these monuments left behind by the Endless, as what better way to learn the whereabouts of Tor?



Pilgrim Affinity



Starts with the location of all Wonders known



+10% FIDS on planets for each Wonder controlled by this empire



Wonders grant +5 Approval, +10 Science in addition to their regular effects



This gives the Pilgrims a more unique playstyle. They really, really want to control the galaxy's wonders quickly, and hold onto them. My concern is that this is too much of an RNG affinity, but in most games I play, there are generally at least two wonders close by.



Well, those are my thoughts. All comments and suggestions are very welcome!

stasik28 wrote:
I feel this Pilgrim affinity is too useless, what if you play a multi game and they disable wonders? Or a small map that has barely any? Sure this fits better into their lore, but... it seems too weak imho

I would agree with you, if you were to play a random game and 3 players are Pilgrim and they are trying to get a total of maybe 5 or 6 Wonders its not going to be that powerful of a affinity unless your lucky to have most of them within your starting area.



Maybe if we were to look at having there starting system have a wonder within it at the start of the game, as their lore would show they are moving around the galaxy looking at the wonder's left behind by the endless to find Tor, why would they not want to start on a world with a Endless relic or wonder.

I feel this Pilgrim affinity is too useless, what if you play a multi game and they disable wonders? Or a small map that has barely any? Sure this fits better into their lore, but... it seems too weak imho

Cravers are not op once the locust comes back to bite them.

Gameslayer989 wrote:
I like the pilgrim affinity. I don't like their tech :/

You don't like their +30 industry tech? I think it's one of the best racial techs, especially for development (although craver early 8 extra command points is stupid, really guys, OP much?) If any race has bad tech, it's amoeba. They get nothing special whatsoever until very late in a game.



Anyway, I will agree on first glance pilgrims affinity seems boring, but it is possible to exploit it for quick expansion. If you do it right, you can expand just as fast or faster than a expansion based sophon race! and, since you're pilgrims, you can get on those gas giants faster, and put +30 industry on outposts as well. I've used fleet errant to run away only once, (and it was pretty awesome) but it is possible to exploit it, so honestly I would rate pilgrims as just as good as a sophon or craver race. (i guess eysteinh already covered this )



As for cravers reducing planet quality......ehhhhhh certainly an interesting idea, but be careful, lowering the tier of a planet also lowers the pop cap, not to mention the resources you can exploit. If a craver had only barren and lava planets, its max population would be pathetically small.

i love the idea of the Pilgrims Affinity....maybe without the knowing of the locations...but all in all genius! its even fitting the lore perfectly!

Your Craver redesign is also pretty cool.

I like the pilgrim affinity. I don't like their tech :/

I would agree with your craver change, except I think it would be too easy in the end-game to just keep terraforming. Also, this negative would have NO impact to planets that start out at level IV.

What if it were:

125% FIDS first 40 LP.

100% FIDS next 10 LP.

90% FIDS next 10 LP.

80% FIDS next 10 LP.

Etc, Etc down to zero.



There could be a method of gradual restoration for non-cravers to get the planets back up to shape. Maybe a tech that reduces LP per turn. It would have to be included in another existing improvement that would be built in standard games...

Cravers are slightly too powerfull now yes, Regarding Pilgrims you are using the trait only in one way and need to be more creative. It is a great trait for snowballing planets that normally take a long time to produce in and instead having 1-2 cities spamming 2 col with +10 industry ships in 1-2 turns (with hero and +15 industry) perfect for settling artic planets etc. Also the pilgrims gets gas planets very early than other so it is perfect for moving pop to a extremly high production/science gas planet. With my custom pilgrims I can allmost match my craver expansion.