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[Composite suggestion] Combat and Diplomacy

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12 years ago
May 24, 2012, 2:13:06 PM
Just a few observations and suggestions for combat in general.



1) Large ships are nearly useless. I haphazardly started building tons of dreadnoughts in my first game (admittedly a bad idea regardless, but nonetheless), and found that a squadron of cruisers could wipe the floor with them. Large ships simply don't have the hitpoints to justify their costs, and they don't appear to bring too much extra firepower either.



2) The stages of combat ruin diversity in ship design. Combat goes long range, then medium range, then melee range, and rarely if ever does it reach melee range. Thus, beam weaponry is the undisputed champion of war followed by missile barrages, while kinetics are all but powerless to do anything. I'd say that kinetics would have longer range than missiles due to physics, but that's honestly not important as the "3 stages of combat" system really needs to be redone. Maybe have a way for the fleets to close range faster to unleash deadly close range payloads, or have some sort of tractor beam support module for pulling in enemy fleets or something, or just let players have control over how their fleet moves.



3) The combat arm of research doesn't have enough empire bonuses. This one is more personal and subjective, but I honestly thought that researching military techs should give your fleets and empire a full bonus every once in a while. I love the diversity of modules you can put onto ships, but it takes forever to research them and rarely if ever do you get the chance to put them in your fleets if you're going to war at any regular pace. Perhaps instead you could change to make retrofits possible in enemy systems during a war for an extra Dust cost?



And just one issue with diplomacy: enemy empires are far too eager to bandwagon on you. I was playing an 8 empire game as the Empire, and got declared war upon by 6 empires within 3 turns for no reason other than I had a strong military. While not gamebreaking, it's really annoying to suddenly have to defend 3 different fronts across your galaxy out of nowhere (this is the situation that made #3 of my military issues a problem, by the way).



I aim only to give feedback and constructive criticism.
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12 years ago
May 24, 2012, 2:34:12 PM
For the record, there's a new sub-forum for suggestions. Just letting you know, in case this gets moved. Anywho, for my thoughts and opinions:



1.) I really have to disagree with this. I'm a primarily Dreadnought user, and I've never had trouble with other fleets (that don't have dreads) when using them. The few times I've had issues were when I went into four back-to-back battles against full fleets of Hissho Battleships and Cruisers, and the end result of that was me losing one Dread and a Destroyer for...everything they had. If you research the techs that increase tonnage and other ship upgrades, no Cruiser of mine can come close to any Dread build I have.



Sure though, people have different play styles. But I wouldn't say to get rid of the larger ships if you, personally, find them useless.



2.) I think the difference between missiles in kinetics is that at long range, you probably need a rather sophisticated targeting system to make sure the kinetics hit the enemy. Realistically, who knows what debris and space rocks/junks are floating between the ships that an intercept and block/knock off course a kinetic round. And while the same can be said of missile, I assumed that in the future, nearly all missile would be like the smart and cruise missiles of today, and would be able to navigate around hazards to have a better chance of reaching the target.



That said, I agree, I rarely have battles that make it to the melee range. I'd say we could probably use options to let a player choose to have their fleet rush in, closing distances faster is they want a melee focus. You'd likely be open to more damage while rushing in, but that could probably be offset by the damage you could do if you spec melee builds right. Tractor beams I'm not sure about, because that's a lot of energy needed to move something as massive as a fleet of ships closer to you, while their own engines work against it.



3.) The option to retrofit in enemy territory would be nice, but, how would it work? Realistically, I mean. After all, the ships aren't anywhere near their dry docks. Where would the new mods be coming from? How would they be installed? A ship is more or less a sitting duck while being retrofitted...do you want to give enemies a free shot at them because of that?



4.) Yeah, I'm next to positive this is discussed elsewhere, but the Diplomacy system is being worked on. It's still just an alpha right now, after all. Any empires neighboring you are simply guaranteed to go to war with you. There's little we can do about it right now.
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12 years ago
May 24, 2012, 6:41:00 PM
1. I wasn't saying get rid of the bigger ships, but rather revamp the hitpoints or give it a defensive boost or something. While the tech makes a big difference, a basic dreadnought should still be able to withstand more than a volley or two from some cruisers (plenty of examples of that in my Empire game -.-).



2. The debris point is true, although I'm not sure that would necessarily reduce the range of kinetic guns due to accuracy issues. I'd imagine if you can build a missile that can bank in a vacuum, you can make a targeting matrix :P But I digress. I really just want to see the three types of weaponry balanced better, as right now a beam-spammer will almost always win.



3. I would imagine retrofitting in enemy territory would be something like emergency field repairs: sloppy but functional with the idea that you'd smooth everything out later. The extra effort that would have to be put into ensuring the retrofits worked and lasted long enough to be permanently installed later would justify the extra Dust cost.



4. Of course it's an alpha, and I'm sure you guys have got Diplomacy covered. And I don't entirely mind taking on an entire galaxy alone smiley: wink
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12 years ago
May 24, 2012, 7:07:24 PM
1.) When you say basic Dreadnought, what do you mean? The way I interpret that, you have a Dread with the first weapon and defense mod unlocks. That isn't enough to stand up to fire from several Cruisers who may be using much more powerful weapons. Also, alone, any ship is vulnerable. Because it is the only example I can think of (I'll try to come up with a better one later, if need be), take Sovereign from Mass Effect 1. He's a Reaper, and one of the larger and more powerful ones at that, and could destroy any ship the galaxy through at him. But alone he was overwhelmed and destroyed by sheer numbers.



If your Dreads aren't alone, or even flying around in a fleet of Dreads, I'm tempted to say that you aren't putting strong enough mods, or the right number of certain mods, onto them.



2.) Well, no, the range wouldn't be decreased, but you'd have to hope that nothing got in the way of the round from the moment you fire it to destination. There is more that can interfere with it from long range to make the round ineffective, where as in close range, not so much. But I digress as well. I don't think I've played enough games on higher difficulties (I'm usually on Normal) to really see if there is an unbalance. I tend to put emphasis in missiles, and indeed most of my battles are won then in the long range phase.



This might have to wait for multiplayer to be released to test and see if there is a balancing issue.



3.) Still, I argue where the retrofits are coming from. Now, repairs in enemy territory I can understand. But replacing guns, or armor, engine, etc.? I still don't see how that would be plausible.



4.) And yes. While I'm eagerly waiting an improved Diplomacy system, right now I'm having a blast taking on an entire galaxy and coming out (most of the time) on top.
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