Hecubus wrote:
It's basically taking some notes from "Gratuitous Space Battles". http://store.steampowered.com/app/41800/

Ah. The original post now makes complete sense. I do enjoy a few rounds of GSB every now and then.



Though for ES, I gotta say I only like Idea (1). Your second and third ideas would add too much complexity to combat-related decisions, especially the second. I'd prefer to keep the combat system simple.

I like these ideas, with the suiting ships to fight certain other ships definitely, and the formations would be a little more engaging.

Not sure how the RoE would be implemented though really alongside the current premise of space battles.

xhellspawnedx wrote:
Indeed! If there's no such option in the final release, there will ultimately be no point in having a varied fleet - You'll just end up using nothing but dreadnaughts.

I agree. As it is now, specialized ships are too vulnerable.



I just had an idea that sort of combines RoE and formations. What if we use the formation method used by modern fleets? You have the inner body which holds your most valuable ships. These are screened by concentric circles of warships. What if we did that here? Each ship in a fleet is in one of three parts of the formation. Let's call them Body, Inner, Outer. Outer would take the most damage in battle, followed by Inner. Ships in Body would be well protected.



Given the game format, this might be the easiest to implement. Ships are given penalties/bonuses based on their position in the formation.

I agree with the basic premise of all the suggestions but they may need to wait until later expansions/sequels.

Hecubus wrote:
Not to mention missle boats. It would be nice if you could try and force the enemy to get through your dreadnought first to get to your support craft and howitzers that are bringing up the rear.

Indeed! If there's no such option in the final release, there will ultimately be no point in having a varied fleet - You'll just end up using nothing but dreadnaughts. I would also like to add to this, in taking a page from EVE Online - Either hull-specific bonuses to certain weapons, hull-specific weapons of greater magnitude than the generic ones (fast, evasive bomber corvettes equipping corvette-only bomb launchers doing a whole lot more damage than the regular missiles, for instance), or something completely different, that serves to make the smaller hulls viable even when you've gotten the biggest ship around. This would serve to break up the gameplay as well - Imagine when you have your ultimate death-machines, several fleets of them, and you begin to invade your enemies territory, only to find yourself unable to hit the enemies ships when he counter-attacks with small, quick assault ships. That really would make the game come to life, even at the point where most strategy games goes into an ever self-perpetuating avalanche, unable to be stopped, when one player has the upper hand late on in a game.

Not to mention missle boats. It would be nice if you could try and force the enemy to get through your dreadnought first to get to your support craft and howitzers that are bringing up the rear.

I see what you are now saying, Hecubus. For a moment there I was picturing the GSB display, with all its orders and sliders and such. And I cringed.



I guess some basic RoE would be nice. In recent games, I've been trying to include "support" ships with my battle fleets. Only trouble is that the supports always bite it first. Be great if I could tell them to stay away from the bad guys.

Prophet wrote:
Ah. The original post now makes complete sense. I do enjoy a few rounds of GSB every now and then.



Though for ES, I gotta say I only like Idea (1). Your second and third ideas would add too much complexity to combat-related decisions, especially the second. I'd prefer to keep the combat system simple.

It would be a little much if you were forced to set the RoE and Formation for each fleet prior to a combat phase, but if you could set up default RoE and Formations for your fleets and then have the option to use the default or edit RoE and Formation of a fleet prior to a fight, that would be cool. The RoE's certainly do not need to be quite as complex as those in Gratuitous Space Battles, but even being able to select an enemy hull type as a priority target would be awesome.

Cadoras wrote:
Although I would like to see all the suggestions being put to use, I have my most sincere doubts it will ever happen. I can not imagine the gamedevs will completely overhaul the entire combatsystem at this stage on such a scale. I suspect if they will change something, it will be in the lines of other cards or slightely varied cinematics. Could be I am a bit pessimistic about this, but I really think not.



I think it would really help if the gamedevs would give us an outline to what extend possible changes can be made to the combatsystem (even if it is post-release).



Otherwise, these discussions verge on the pointless. If we want to contribute as a community, we have to know to what extend our suggestions for the combatsystem can be put to use.

I do agree it would be a lot of work, particularily if they were to implement the RoE. That would be something that would most likely need to be reserved for an expansion or something. I don't think it's entirely outside the realm of possibility however, especially since it's in-keeping with their hands-off approach to combat. It's not like I'm suggesting they implement Total-War RTS combat.

Although I would like to see all the suggestions being put to use, I have my most sincere doubts it will ever happen. I can not imagine the gamedevs will completely overhaul the entire combatsystem at this stage on such a scale. I suspect if they will change something, it will be in the lines of other cards or slightely varied cinematics. Could be I am a bit pessimistic about this, but I really think not.



I think it would really help if the gamedevs would give us an outline to what extend possible changes can be made to the combatsystem (even if it is post-release).



Otherwise, these discussions verge on the pointless. If we want to contribute as a community, we have to know to what extend our suggestions for the combatsystem can be put to use.

I like the ROE idea, but I don't think that the rest would work too well with ES as is.

Preamble: I have 3 suggestions that all tie into each other. The objective here is to encourage greater strategic depth for ship design and fleet composition.



1) Weapon sizes: the idea is simple, make each weapon module available in 3 different sizes. Small weapon modules would be effective against corvettes and destroyers, but much less so against the massive hull of a Dreadnought. Large weapon modules would be effective against Dreads, but would suffer an accuracy penalty against smaller more manuevable craft. Regular sized weapons would be ideal for destroying Cruisers and Battleships, less so against Dreads, Corvettes and Destroyers.



2) Rules of Enagement (RoE): In the fleet window, it would be nice to set some basic rules of engagement for each ship type. For instance, if I had a fleet of 2 battleships and 3 destroyers where the destroyers were loaded up with medium-sized missles, it would be nice to be able to set a rule where the destroyers would attempt to stay at maximum range for the duration of combat, whilst prioritizing medium-sized targets. If I added a Dreadnought loaded with a gajillion small kinetics and the best engines money could buy to the fleet, I would tell it to target small vessels and close with them at maximum speed.



Should strike craft eventually be introduced, bombers could be instructed to flank the enemy vessels while fighters would be instructed to escort the bombers or intercept enemy strike craft.



3) Formations: Pretty self-explanatory. It would be nice to have an overlay accessed through the fleet window where we could change the fleet formation at the start of a battle. Using the fleet from #2, I would put the Dreadnought at the front, flanked on either side by the Battleships, and have the Destroyers bring up the rear.



I feel that some, or all of these changes, would dramatically increase the player's input into the way combat unfolds, while still sparing us the tactical RTS gameplay that would detract from the overal strategy of running a galactic empire. Hopefully, it would also encourage diverse fleet compositions.

Hecubus wrote:
Well perhaps having different sizes for weapon modules isn't the correct way of going about it, but it would be cool to have 3 different variations for each weapon module that would be more effective against a specific hull type. IE: Small quick lazers get a bonus against corvettes/destroyers. Large Torpedoes are good against Dreadnaughts. Etc.

I agree with 2 and 3. I also agree with 1 with the above version. 3 has also been discussed a few times in the forums a few times elsewhere.

From a development perspective, RoE's would be very scaleable as well. They could start off with a few simple ones at first and add increasingly more complex options later on depending on the community's reception.

Hecubus wrote:
Well perhaps having different sizes for weapon modules isn't the correct way of going about it, but it would be cool to have 3 different variations for each weapon module that would be more effective against a specific hull type. IE: Small quick lazers get a bonus against corvettes/destroyers. Large Torpedoes are good against Dreadnaughts. Etc.

Yeah that would be better.

Well perhaps having different sizes for weapon modules isn't the correct way of going about it, but it would be cool to have 3 different variations for each weapon module that would be more effective against a specific hull type. IE: Small quick lazers get a bonus against corvettes/destroyers. Large Torpedoes are good against Dreadnaughts. Etc.

Indeed, and thats why i agreed on 2 and 3.

It's basically taking some notes from "Gratuitous Space Battles". http://store.steampowered.com/app/41800/

I agree with 2 and 3.



But not one, you cant just scale up the same weapon and expect it to work. But the basic premice for weapons that target spesific hulls is heading in the right direction.

I support the basic premise, I am unsure over the exact nature of the details.