I really like the idea of Pilgrims being some kind of rogue explorer/scientist sect, but with current trait set, they don't feel like that, but more like some kind agressive traders (Second United Empire).



Especially because of Knowladge Gathering skill that is boosting their research rate by every destroyed command point of enemy. It is making this race a little too aggressive to fit the lore of the game in my opinion.



My proposition is to replace Knowledge Gathering with something different, more suited to character of this race. I've 2 ideas:



- SPACESHIP LABOLATORY: every ship in a fleet give some bonus to research per turn, depending on its class.

For example: +1 Research Point (RP) per corvette, +1 RP per destroyer, +2 RP per cruiser, +3 per battleship, +4 per dreadnought - basically 1 command point (CP) = 1 RP per turn. There is need for balancing that with the rest of the game, of course. Maybe with max RP bonus per turn.



Game mechanics: That way the bonuses will be getting stronger as the game (and therefore technology) progress. Bigger ships become available later in the game, afterall. As technology cost also is getting bigger that would equal quite nicely in my opinion. But there's go one problem - someone could be making tons of ships without any equipment, just to get more RP.



Lore: They are supposed to be searching galaxy for ancient Endless homeworld, right? They also have 20% less space available on their ships. So, where this space went? Maybe it was spend on equiping every ship with labolatory and data repositiory that would be necessary to their search. Part of it is already in the game - they have superior (+2) Sensor Range after all.



And the second one:



- ENDLESS SEARCH: RP bonus per visited star system, with similar max RP limit.



Lore: They are explorers? They are. They are scientists too? Hell yeah!



Mechanics: I think that this one gives less room for expoit and would be easier to both implement (there is already notificaction when you map half of the galaxy, so i guess that number of visited worlds is already counted by the game) and balance (another example: by implementing limits to max RP depending on size of galaxy)



Also, i really like second trait name. It fits lore soooooooooooooooo good. ;]



EDIT: there were some caveats to this proposition:

Igncom1 wrote:
I dunno, on the smaller maps it could leave them with only a small bonus and on the huge maps it could spiral into being better then the sophons, leaving them without any advantage.

SOLUTION:

Pilgrim bonus would have to be not dependable on amount of visited systems, but rather on number of visited systems in relation to total systems number (i.e. 100% galaxy explored = 30% science bonus, 50% galaxy explored = 15% bonus).

For more info look for post #11 in this thread.



Let me know what you think. And, what is more important, if you think that any of those are good, let devs know.



PS. Thanks to Halken for telling me that there is a design subforum, i have somehow missed it.

Good ideas. I would like to see the Pilgrims reworked a bit as well.



I like the first idea. However, it might be cool to have it as an actual Support module. You could have a series of 'Lab' modules that provide a bonus.



The second idea is great, and would really reward exploration. It would be nice if this could also bring in the Evacuation ability to relocate a world's pop / structures. I have yet to use that ability, but it is very cool from a thematic view.

Can i also suggest one here?

You don't have to ask, just speak your mind.

Fleet Manufacturing



-50% industry to systems



+5 Industry per (CP) in system



Lore: In their search for the endless, it would be wise to be constantly be on the move.



Game-play: This system would promote a more defensive and conservative approach to fleet and ship management giving (Returning or adding) a industrial boost to where ever ships are present making newer colony's easy to set up and allowing a Pilgrim empire to be strongest wherever its fleets lie, promoting a nomadic game that could end up with players living of the industry of their ships even in enemy territory.



Could give this faction newer twist on the whole empire building thing that would be familiar with any Mongolian.

Otik wrote:
ENDLESS SEARCH: RP bonus per visited star system

The reason I fully support this bonus is it is a far better fit to the Pilgrims background than +RP per CP destroyed.

* They are explorers, not destroyers.

* It directly supports their mission to seek out clues and ties to the endless

* It fits their background as scientists, which many have commented seems to be lacking in all their traits. (They learn from each new planet they encounter).

* It is complimentary with their other bonuses (exploring leads to contact with races, which leads to trade and possible alliances).

* Why +RP per CP destroyed?...I cannot think of one reason that fits their lore....other than they need a science bonus

* and yes the proposed name is cool.



Thank you Otik for suggesting it, I think it is a great fit for them. I hope this gets attention.

i really like the "endless search" suggestion

I dunno, on the smaller maps it could leave them with only a small bonus and on the huge maps it could spiral into being better then the sophons, leaving them without any advantage.

I like all the ideas and agree that "Knowledge Gathering" should be exchanged for something more fitting to the theme of the Pilgrims.

Or whatever their gameplay type is.

Igncom1 wrote:
I dunno, on the smaller maps it could leave them with only a small bonus and on the huge maps it could spiral into being better then the sophons, leaving them without any advantage.

Thank you for bringing that up.

Yes, this could be an issue, but not necessary. In fact most of racial traits can be consider galaxy size dependant. How is that? I'll use Sophons as an example.

1. They gets +30% bonus to Science in the System.

2. Smaller galaxies means less systems available.

Therefore: Their bonus gives them less science in smaller galaxies and as such is also partially galaxy size dependant.



Problem lies somewhere else. Depending on amounts of players in the game the Sophons will be able to colonize more worlds (i.e. 64 system galaxy with 8 players = ~8 systems per player, but 64 system galaxy with 2 players = 32 systems per player) therefore getting more science, while the amount of systems that Pilgrims can map remain constant in both scenarios.



Solution: Pilgrim bonus would have to be not dependable on amount of visited systems, but rather on number of visited systems in relation to total systems number.

Lets say that pilgrims get 30% science bonus for discovering 100% of galaxy. If we use linear function they would be getting 15% for 50% galaxy, 10% per 1/3 galaxy, 5% per 1/6 galaxy and so on.

Of course balancing with other races would require considering other options, like quadratic equation or just some kind of custom values (i.e. 100% galaxy = 30% science, but 50% galaxy = 20% science bonus and 25% galaxy = 10% science bonus).



I hope you see where i'm going with that.



(And I hope that i can be understood, english isn't my native language and I don't feel really confident while using it. Especially with mathematical terms.)



There is also one more problem that would require attention: potential Ameba-Pilgrims alliance. As Ameba starts with full galaxy vision from the start of the game that would give Pilgrims quite an advantage. But as alliance technology doesn't arrive until early mid-game this could not be a problem. It is hard to predict something here without deeper analysis of gameplay and race balance.



But maybe someone else have a proposition how to deal with that. That would be really great.