Hello fellow forum members,



in my last game as sowers I went for a wonder victory and I must say I was very dissatified by how similar it felt to the science victory. Just for comparison:

-Science victory, research the very last tech on the left side. As an optional you may research 3 endgame techs in the other trees to reduce the cost of science victory.

-Wonder victory, research the very last tech in the bottom tree, then build 5 endless empire improvements in 5 systems.



How are these similar? They are similar in that, in a normal game, you just can't rush the bottom tree. For a good game you need to at least go in the three non-combat trees to stay in the game. I am inclient to believe that you can make it without half or two-thirds of the diplomacy tree, but you need to tech deep into industy and science. How much you need combat techs is dictated by your enemies so you might need to go in deep here as well. And then, once you feel you are ready to go for the victory you usually have enough systems with 4 digit-industry letting you finish all 5 improvements in a single turn.

That does not feel very wonderlike. I think the problem is that the scientific work for the victory by far outweighs the industrial part of it.



Example:

In my game the science victory tech took 52 turns and if I had felt so inclined to do it the three cost-reducing techs would have been within easy reach as well. Wondertech took 8 turns to grab, one turn later every endless empire was completed. That felt less like industrial effort and more like a 9-turn science victory.



My suggestion:

1. Make third conversion option available. "Contribute to Industrial Domination" or something like that. This would let players contribute the systems industrial yield toward a big flat sum of industry the player needs to accumulate to win. This would let people decide if and when they want to reroute industrial capacity toward a greater infrastructural victory and would stand opposed to IND->science, Ind->dust or just mass ship production offering more strategic depth. This would make It different from science victory without making it feel like another economy victory as you would have to decide what you want each system to do.



2. As 1 but tie it to a tech in expansion tree. Make it available halfway through to make it feel less like a scientific endeavor and more like an industrial one.



As it stands now, it just feels like another tech victory followed by building just some more standard improvements. For comparison: endless empire cost about 1050 IND for sowers as they reduce IND cost by 43-50% (do not know how exactly faction trait and AI Labor stack). every faction has systems with four digit industry mid to endgame.